Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

For me the current Dragoon type limits me in my design of the Nap series. I would like to use the D type for ALL dragoons but also add in a "Dragoons May Not Dismount" optional rule (as otherwise the old "House Rule" would crop up too often).

Here is what we have:

Dragoon type (D) are Heavy cavalry that can dismount. Thus, as Heavy cavalry, they get a 20 percent bonus when they attack.

Here is what I envision:

Dragoon type (D) are Medium cavalry that can dismount. They get a 10 percent bonus when they attack.

Please do not turn the thread into a comparison of the nation's Dragoon types. "Well I think that French Dragoons are better than Prussian Dragoons." If you do then change the Prussian Dragoons to Light cavalry. Simple as that.

This poll is to help me decide if I have enough support in going to John Tiller to suggest that we redefine the type. Here is some support on this matter from noted historian Dr. Stephen Summerfield:

Definition of Dragoon is difficult.
1. Define by horse.
2. Define by function - acted as poor light cavalry and battle cavalry. Being neither one or other depending upon nation.
3. Define by sword - sabre = light cavalry and straight = heavy

I agree with him on this. Thus for instance the French dragoon regiments #7, 23, 28 & 30 which emerged out of Russia were mounted on terrible horses. Or how about the French dragoons prior to 1806-07?

But note his comment in item #2.

As Light Cavalry were not true battle cavalry in defense of them I would say that there are regiments that have Morale 6 and thus they would get the 20 percent bonus. Certain elite regiments qualify for this.

I would like to have the Light Cavalry be able to "SKIRMISH" meaning that they can change to a "SKIRMISH" mode (Command Menu item as the DETACH button is for breaking down into SQUADRONS). In this mode they would be harder to hit but would be easier to disperse in melee. And no, if you charge a cavalry skirmisher you would not overrun them. BUT you should get the Charge bonus.

Anyway, this thread is a POLL about Dragoons. Please cast your vote.

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)

""""Dragoon type (D) are Medium cavalry that can dismount. They get a 10 percent bonus when they attack"""""

On average Dragoons certainly do not deserve 20% bonus.
10% looks fairer to me. I voted for this concept.

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General-Leytenant Alexey Tartyshev
Leib-Guard Preobrazhensky Regiment (Grenadier Drum)
1st Brigade
Guard Infantry Division
5th Guard Corps


(I don't play with with ZOC kills and Rout limiting ON)

Well, personally, I think dragoons are the backbone of every army. As such, they should get at least a 50% bonus....



Well, Dragoons and Jagers that is, although the Jagers should get 50% added to their firepower...



Although, seriously, please enlighten me as to situations in which Dragoons really fought dismounted in the Napoleonic Wars. I always think of them fighting mounted, but that could be an effect of playing the games as currently structured.

I hope you don't mind if, while awaiting your reply, I get back to my rat killing....



Ooohh, Scott C. is going to get me for that one.

I think most of us would turn ON an optional rules that is for them NOT dismounting. Very rarely would you see them dismount and in some cases a particular nation's dragoons did not even have carbines! (Russians I believe)

When you saw dismounted dragoon units it was due to a lack of horses.

They did dismount during the Ulm Campaign. Other times as well. It would be left to the players to decide.

And really as long as the player want to live by a "house rule" to NOT dismount them it would take an error on the part of the player to accidentally dismount them (the button IS right next to the DETACH button ...).

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)

An optional rule would be best. I'd like to see lt cav and dragoons be able to dismount for all countries. In long campaigns there are situations where dismounting patrols, etc could be useful.

... and in one manual, or text regarding cavalry ... Prussian I believe it was ... the regs called for the flankers to dismount and form skirmishers to protect the rgt/sqn while crossing defiles or bridges.

Any major change to the dismounting would be the dismounted troops can skirmish/or restricted to skirmishing only.

I am not touching the dismounted feature. That would be for someone else to champion.

What I am for is to end this issue of not using the type at all. It should get used but just with some restraint by players or an option that would not allow dismounting. Acceptable between players.

For the long games it makes sense to allow it. For the historical battles less so.

I was not happy to see them stay stuck in Line formation but one has to understand the code for the Change formation button which is really just to toggle between two formations. I am sure if he worked at it long enough another command menu item could be added but face it: we are nearing the end of the series and there is only so much we will get to see out of it.

If I can get at least this much done then I believe it justifies the use of the "D" type on a regular basis rather than just the exception to the rule.

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)

I'd rather the melee bonuses for both dragoons and heavy cavalry were transferred to the pdt file with the possibility of assigning different values for each nation. This would provide greater flexibility than say "changing the Prussian dragoons to light cavalry to remove the melee bonus."

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Presumably cavalry skirmishers would suffer significantly lower melee as well as fire casualties - just like infantry skirmishers - otherwise they'd easily get wiped out by a larger cavalry force. In reality, the light cavalry wouldn't stick around for the enemy to make contact, so the enemy cavalry - especially heavy cavalry - should never get a charge bonus.

In fact, it would be better if the cavalry skirmishers could be "bumped" out of the way by any enemy unit, but neither unit should suffer any casualties or become disrupted. This feature is already present in the M&P engine for pikemen "bumping" enemy cavalry.

Also cavalry skirmishers shouldn't have any flanks/rear since they're in open order.

Ideally, cavalry skirmishers should also receive the features already present in the ACW engine - "seeing" 1 hex in advance and also the ability to delay the advance of nearby enemy units.


Col. Rich White
3rd British/KGL Brigade
Cavalry Division
II Corps Anglo-Allied Army

Maybe in the future we will add a column marching, and the columns to attack for infantry.
The cavalry were marching by column and line or echelon attack.
The battalions, regiments will do bivouac, camp, stop for rest ie. without the formation,something like to disorganized.

Many possibilities.

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Général de Brigade Cezary Pluskwa,
17ème Régiment de Dragons,
1ère Brigade,
4ème Division de Dragons,
3ème Corps d'Armée,
La Grande Armée.

Voted for it. It gives more flexibility.

Do not want to be importunate, but as far as I'm concerned three engines, namely NRC, Wgram and Jena still have no Dragoon type whatsoever. Improving them to current level is just as important task as introduction of new features, isn't it?

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Updates for all of the games are on the way. Just a matter of John and Rich getting around to this series.

Frankly with all that John does it is amazing that he can get out as much as he does.

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)