Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

After the week long of celebration for their victory over the French Empire the Emperor of Haiti has name Col Dumas of the French III Corps artillery and senior officer of its artillery Brig. As the Acting representative to the NWC, the official General de Brig to the Empire of Haiti and all the Iles of Saint-Domingue Armee. As an unofficial Gen of Brig he may fight not only for the glory of France but as the official representative of the Emperor of Haiti.

Cliff, I really do not understand why you are persisting in this. I placed the idea of the creation of a Haitian Army in the NWC in front of the Cabinet at your request. Their unanimous decision was that such an army would be out of place in our club. Therefore, the Haitian Army does not exist in the NWC. There has been discussion that such an army would be better placed as a part of the Colonial Campaigns Club at their discretion.

I also negotiated an agreement with Scott Ludwig for you to transfer to the Prussian Army where you would immediately become a General der Infanterie or Kavallerie. You declined this offer. I admit to being a bit baffled at your response, as your posts seem to indicate a great fondness for the Prussian Army, and such a transfer would allow you to quite easily advance past your current rank of Colonel in La Grande Armee.

You are not the only officer in LGA that bears the rank of Colonel while having sufficient OBD points to justify a much higher rank. There are at least half a dozen other officers in your same position, but I never hear complaints from any of them.

If you want to hold a General’s rank, transfer to the Prussian Army where a place has been made to accommodate you. If you want to form a Haitian Army, make your case in the Colonial Campaign Club where such an army would be more appropriate. If you want to obtain full OBD points for playing officers from both sides of this club, then you are going to have to facilitate a popular movement by the majority of this club to change the manner in which we score our battles. In that case though, the rules will have to change for every officer in this club, not just for you personally.

Posts of this nature are confusing to the membership. They send a very mixed message. Please operate within the structure of our club to avoid confusion to our younger officers.

It has nothing to do with being in any Army it's role playing at it highest. If Haiti can't be official then unofficial and if it's not like to h--- with them that can't recognize that Haiti play a big part in World History. Today we are in a world that is changing and if the club can't change then it will go down but to be in where you want me H--- Nay! It's not about rank monsieur it's about "RESPECT" ju want me to respect France and Prusse and England and they can't RESPECT HAITI were is the fairness in that. Many Haitians die on European battle fields there a large monument to Thomas Davy Dumas in Paris chain's broken. [url][/url]

[img]HOMMAGE%20AU%20GENERAL%20DUMAS[/img]Le 4 avril 2009, Brigitte Kuster, maire du XVII° arrondissement, Claude Ribbe, président de l’association des amis du général Dumas, et Bertrand Delanoë, maire de Paris étaient réunis place du général Catroux pour inaugurer un monument à la gloire du général Thomas Alexandre Dumas. Extraits de leurs discours.

In my opinion, this has nothing to do with respect for Haiti. It has to do with preserving the structure of this club.

You say that Haiti played a "big part" in world history. Bigger than the United States of America, Cliff? There is no American Army in this club. Is that disrespectful? I do not think so. I am an American, Cliff, and I would vote against having an American Army in this club, because they did not significantly contribute to the outcome of the Napoleonic Wars which were predominately fought in Europe. When you can conclusively prove to me that as many Haitians perished in this conflict as did French, Russians, Prussians, English, Spanish, etc., then I will give your argument some credence.

I do not agree with you that this is merely roleplaying. You are assuming a nationality that is not included in the structure of this club, a rank which you do not hold, and the concept that you may play any officer from any side of the club for full points in direct contravention of the current club rules. This sends a confusing message to any new members that we might gain.

Thomas-Alexandre Dumas is a historical figure, but he fought for France, not Haiti. If you are going to roleplay your chosen namesake, you need to figure a way to pass the Alps at the head of Napoleon’s Army.

Monsieur I feel the only one who is confused is you, as unofficial means that it's un not official to this club. It has nothing at all of having a American army in the club but a unofficial rep of a people. If you want to be an un-official hero of America like the Brit in Sharp he spoke as and American and acted like a American and like he said over and over sugar, slaves and cotton got him his commission. So if you want to be a Rich southern land owner it's ok by me. If it was ok for the Tv Show Shapes 92nd green jackets it's ok for the nwc if you want to play that part for it's only acting and game play not real mon ami.

Members of the 17th Regt of de line Naples garrison Danzig 1813 before in Northern Germany 1812 ! How this Monsieur de President sons of Haiti. And nay we didn't spell as much blood on the battle field as others but we were there!

Colonel,

For now I want to be known as the First Emperor (Unofficial) of Haiti and as such I am cashiering you from your rank of general and give you back your rank of Colonel....


More seriously now, there was no 17th Regiment de ligne with black soldiers. It was 7e Regiment de ligne which originated from a Pioneer battalion. It became a Napolitan battalion in 1806, then became « Royal Africain » infantry regiment. on the 17 of December 1810 7e régiment d'infanterie de ligne du Royaume de Naples. On the 1st of January 1812, a little before Danzig, the regiment had 2 347 men and 79 officers, with only 400 black men in it. The reason for it was because the recruitment was done by buying slaves or enlisting men who were assigned to residence in Corsica (for example) and most of them were prisoners from Haiti sent by Leclerc during the campaign of 1802-1803.

Were black soldiers courageous? yes!
Were they fairly treated? no!

Now, the reason General Dumas was badly treated in 1802 (destitution and sent to retirement without pension) wasn't fair of course. He was a victim of the policy implemented by Berthier (19th May 1802) and a side effect of the Saint Domingue expedition.

Thanks to you Cliff, I have looked at little more in that part of my history which I came to appreciate even more but unfortunately I don't think (whatever the way you say it) it has more relevance than what they are: historical facts. And those facts even if interesting don't have much to do with the Empire of Haiti. And even less with this club.

source: http://lasabretache.pagesperso-orange.f ... ricain.htm (in French)

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataillon_ ... iers_Noirs (in French too).

_________________
Général David Guegan

3ème Régiment de Grenadiers - Bataillon d'élite du 3ème Légère
2ème Brigade
Grenadiers de la Réserve
Réserve
La Grande Armée
--------------------------
"From the sublime to the ridiculous is but a step."
Napoléon Bonaparte

Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.
Groucho Marx

To all, would it really be so bad to let Cliffton have his Haitian unit. He really seems passionate about it and it would not bother me in the least. Cliff is one of a kind so why don't we have some fun and make an effort to accomodate him? This is a club for having fun right?

_________________
Field Marshal Sir Edward Blackburn, 1st Duke of Aberdeen K.G.
85th (Buck's Light Volunteers) Regiment of Foot
16th British Brigade
7th Division
III (Peninsular) Corps
2nd Battalion, Coldstream Regiment of Foot Guards

It would set a very dangerous precedent, Ed. Once you do this for Cliff, you have no grounds not to do it for every other person who steps forward wanting to create their own army and declare their independence from the structure of our club. Now, I will be the very first person to tell you that I think there are some very deep flaws in the structure of our club, but I do not support what I perceive to be a gateway to its destruction. There is much that we need to change about our club, but this is too radical even for me.

I would wholeheartedly support:

1.) The regular election of Army Commanders by the officers of the affected army;

2.) The regular election of the Club Cabinet officers by the General Membership of this club;

3.) The regular maintenance of our club's websites and, more importantly, the cessation of awarding points to officers for the maintenance of these websites which they are not performing;

4.) Some measure of consistency across all armies in this club as to the method and amount of discretionary awards that are made by the Army Commanders;

5.) Some measure of consistency across all armies in this club as to the type and method of award of medals to all officers of this club;

6.) Increased measures to encourage more active participation in our forums for the purpose of making friends and historical education.

I specifically will not support:

1.) The ability of any, and every, member of this club to create their own army because they are disenchanted with thier current army command;

2.) The ability of any, and every, member of this club to promote themselves to whatever rank they deem appropriate within the army they have thus created;

3.) All other ablities to establish army websites, medal awards, special privaleges, etc. that seem to go hand in hand with being the Commander of an Army in our club. Eventually, such an 'Army Commander' could lobby, with great conviction, that he be allowed a seat on the Cabinet as well so that his 'Army' could be properly represented.

I honestly think this is just a very bad idea, but I am a servent of the membership. If the membership thinks this is a good idea, I will roll with it. If that is to be our selected course, I am just telling you, I see huge problems ahead.

.... but I want to be Swiss, then I can fight anyone for full points. They supplied both sides with troops, and I like Hot Chocolate!

If we open this can of worms, I want a to be the Duke of the Duchy of Nassau. and so on and so on..... and guess what the Duchy of Nassau is actually located in Europe.

Battle On......

Mark,

I am 100 percent behind you on this issue.

You are probably right Mark, just thought I would mention an alternative approach.

_________________
Field Marshal Sir Edward Blackburn, 1st Duke of Aberdeen K.G.
85th (Buck's Light Volunteers) Regiment of Foot
16th British Brigade
7th Division
III (Peninsular) Corps
2nd Battalion, Coldstream Regiment of Foot Guards

Monsieur glade that we are having not only fun with this but are now looking things up. As for the Swiss why not the red Swiss uniforms are very nice and they were well season troops. One of the most Elite units in the Allied army and a pain in the behind in my 1815 games are the Duchy of Nassau. As for any one supporting me I didn't thank so or they would have came forward years ago when I was Marbot. I guess they would have said why isn't he a General with 1000 points now that I have 2500 points what the use. As far as it massing up the establishment I love that. Let's see you most be 5' 10" to be in the Imperial Guard well I got that. Let's see how about the French paying Haiti back that 4 Billion dollars oh that's not in this time frame let's skip that. Oh my Picture of the 17th Inf regt sue the uiformology people. As for the Emperor of Haiti well am still his only man in the Club as of now. I put a call on Facebook but Madden football got all the game players. So as the unofficial General de Brig of Haiti TU ARMES!