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Ernie Sands
 Post subject: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:31 am 
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Location: Massachusetts, USA
That seems to completely disregard another post that "several" cabinet members asked Marco to return.

So, what gives the cabinet OR a portion of it, the authority to kick out members?

Who voted yes to this and who voted no? Were ALL cabinet members offered the opportunity to vote?

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David Guegan
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:46 am 
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Posts: 1203
Location: Charlotte NC
That's wonderful.

Who's next?

I am really glad that it's only a club where the focus of the club "is to provide our members with a place where they can experience the military and historical flavor of the Napoleonic Period. Our club provides more than just a points ladder system, but a better way to participate in Napoleonic roleplaying and scholarly discussions of Napoleonic history. Promotions are based on the number of games played, but assignments to the command positions of the club's armies are based on the qualities of individual leadership displayed by our most talented officers. The leadership positions within the various armies reflect a General Staff type system, but our club also includes a "civilian" cabinet led by a Club President who is elected by the membership. This provides a method to balance the military perspective of our club, while providing our members with a means to communicate complaints, suggestions and comments to a body of neutral leaders without any bias towards the particular armies in our club. Active participation by all members is encouraged, as this helps to reduce paperwork and distributes administrative duties, making them less burdensome.

Above all, the goal of our club is to promote the friendly interaction of Napoleonic wargamers in order to enhance the enjoyment of their games, and to increase their knowledge of Napoleonic history."

Maybe we could scrap that part of the introduction of the new rules. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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3ème Régiment de Grenadiers - Bataillon d'élite du 3ème Légère
2ème Brigade
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Réserve
La Grande Armée
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"From the sublime to the ridiculous is but a step."
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Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.
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David Guegan
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:10 am 
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And for good measure I sent this email to the members of the Cabinet and Marco who has been thanked for his service.

Quote:
Subject: No confidence in the Cabinet
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 01:07:36 -0500
From: David Guégan <davidguegan@earthlink.net>
To: Mark Jones <mark.jones@neel-schaffer.com>, John Corbin <chief_of_staff@rogers.com>, LGA Chef d'Etat-Major Maréchal Aloysius Kling Sr <berthier@napoleonsbrigade.com>, "agmoss99@hotmail.com" <agmoss99@hotmail.com>, Marco Bilj <marco@nvforest.com>


Dear members of the Cabinet,

I am very disappointed in what happened.
You were a group of 5 adult men. I am sorry to say that by being unable
to put your different aside you are jeopardizing the future of the club.

By reducing the size of the Cabinet to 4 members you have shown to the
club that rules don't really matter, by excluding Marco you have shown
that you are unable to compromise. Good leaders compromise (settle a
dispute by mutual concession) or we end-up with the "if you're not with
me you are against me" mentality.

The club work is done by volunteers. And the more it goes and the less
we will find volunteers especially when we can see how they are thanked.
Marco served the club for many years and you thank him this way? Great,
you couldn't wait for the next election cycle?

To all members of the Cabinet who have voted to fire Marco from his CiC
position: you will certainly get many thanks you from your fan-boys but
you wont get my respect (which I guess you don't care about).


General David Guégan
Commandant le IIIe corps
La Grande Armée


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3ème Régiment de Grenadiers - Bataillon d'élite du 3ème Légère
2ème Brigade
Grenadiers de la Réserve
Réserve
La Grande Armée
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"From the sublime to the ridiculous is but a step."
Napoléon Bonaparte

Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.
Groucho Marx
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John Corbin
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:55 am 
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Location: Canada
For the record i voted to retain Marco.

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David Stotsenburgh
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:54 am 
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What a travesty! I agree with Davids comments

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Hakan Hen
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:07 am 
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Posts: 407
Is there a disagreement (conflict?) between Mark and Marco ? and why ? That would just disappoint us (me) as both are gentlemen and kind to everyone and work hard when someone need something in the club. :(
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Andy Moss
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:36 am 
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Posts: 1393
Location: United Kingdom
Hakan, I'd like to think it's just a case of evolution, not revolution. Change can be painful. I replied privately to David's email and concerns, and it is not necessary to quote it here. Hope that helps.
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David Stotsenburgh
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:06 am 
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No, evolution would have been waiting for the election and let things naturally evolve with a vote by coalition members as scheduled.

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Mike Friedman
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:43 am 
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Let's just forget the personalities involved. Forget about the members of the cabinet.

The existing CiC resigned the position. If he was allowed to just take up the role again because he changed his mind, what prevents the previous CiC from doing the same thing? Or what about the CiC before that? Could the first ever Allied CiC just change his mind and say he wants the old job back?

Now, I know that is highly unlikely to happen, but given the current rules, seeking the approval of the cabinet seemed the most logical thing to me.
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David Guegan
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:20 am 
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Location: Charlotte NC
Mike Friedman wrote:
Let's just forget the personalities involved. Forget about the members of the cabinet.

The existing CiC resigned the position. If he was allowed to just take up the role again because he changed his mind, what prevents the previous CiC from doing the same thing? Or what about the CiC before that? Could the first ever Allied CiC just change his mind and say he wants the old job back?

Now, I know that is highly unlikely to happen, but given the current rules, seeking the approval of the cabinet seemed the most logical thing to me.


I think I am done talking to walls.

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3ème Régiment de Grenadiers - Bataillon d'élite du 3ème Légère
2ème Brigade
Grenadiers de la Réserve
Réserve
La Grande Armée
--------------------------
"From the sublime to the ridiculous is but a step."
Napoléon Bonaparte

Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.
Groucho Marx
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Jeff Bardon
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2001 5:57 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Mike Friedman wrote:
Let's just forget the personalities involved. Forget about the members of the cabinet.

The existing CiC resigned the position. If he was allowed to just take up the role again because he changed his mind, what prevents the previous CiC from doing the same thing? Or what about the CiC before that? Could the first ever Allied CiC just change his mind and say he wants the old job back?

Now, I know that is highly unlikely to happen, but given the current rules, seeking the approval of the cabinet seemed the most logical thing to me.



Are you serious? So it's back to semantics again (the "Choose a word so my position is justified" Brigade).

I don't care how anyone feels personally about him or his style or if you felt he was mean to Mark about the chief of staff position. If you didn't want him as CiC, you vote him out in the election.

You can't vote to not reinstate someone unless you first fire them, because Marco is plainly stating he did not resign. Mark, Al and Andy owe the members an explanation, since there is nothing even remotely close to allowing this in the rules. From what I can see, Mark fired Marco, and then tried to cloak it in some semblance of legitimacy.

Why, because he decided not to participate in the cabinet discussions any longer? So where does it state that he has to do that? Is the rule so clear and sacrosanct that it must never be violated? Seriously?

Let's be clear, Marco was forced out because people just couldn't wait for an actual election to happen. It's wrong. It's petty and it makes the whole process look more and more like a sham.

It's a wargame club for goodness sakes, and yet here we are watching power politics in action.

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Ed Blackburn
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:48 pm 
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Posts: 1411
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"So the only way out is to withdraw the position of the Allied CiC from the cabinet. And that is what I have done today. ...

... There are now only 4 remaining cabinet members and the cabinet is no longer balanced either."

Sorry Jeff, but Marco left of his own volition for whatever reason and you can't just take a Cabinent postion and "withdraw" it.

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Jeff Bardon
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:25 pm 
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Sorry, Ed. Nowhere in that quote does it say he resigned as CiC.

The question remains posed to Mark, Al and Andy to justify stripping him of that position rather than letting something fair and democratic like an election decide things.

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Ernie Sands
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 4:51 pm
Posts: 1232
Location: Massachusetts, USA
My, My, My.

Shame, shame, shame.

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Ernie Sands
1ère Brigade of 2ème Division de Grosse Cavalerie, Réserve de Cavalerie
de la Grande Armée
President, Colonial Campaigns Club
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Genghis
 Post subject: Re: New Coalition CIC
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:01 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba,Canada.
Since the recent Cabinet vote was 3 to 1, and since Marco's email to all Coalition Officers indicated that "several" Cabinet members encouraged his return, I can only conclude that in Marco's mind "several" equates to at best "one". Now where should the shame rest?

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