Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

I'm playing Ligny as the Prussians and my opponent keeps using skirmishers to surround my units, which are then cut off from command and cannot retreat.

THIS technique makes a total farce out of combat.

any unit would cut its way out of being surrounded by skirmishers but I HAVE TO STAND THERE and be slaughtered.

and more that 1/2 my army is fixed.

This is unplayable.

it must be fixed.

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2ème Brigade, 1ère Division, 1er Corps d'Armee
Général de Brigade

No unit would allow itself to be massacred and just stay in place like this.

IT's unreal.

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2ème Brigade, 1ère Division, 1er Corps d'Armee
Général de Brigade

Do you have the OR "No Retreat Overruns" ON?
Turning it off will make units retreating simply overrunning skirmishers.

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That's a good rule, but it still keeps detached units locked in place unable to fight to be destroyed by formed units as they advance.

I really don't like allowing skirmishers to surround formed units.

most of us play that way, occasionally I take a game with someone who doesn't play that way.

I have to remember to make it a point with every new player I play.

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2ème Brigade, 1ère Division, 1er Corps d'Armee
Général de Brigade

It was awful in the older Battleground series.

How to avoid this is to keep infantry/cavalry reserves handy. Dont push your Allied infantry out too far without proper support units.

I like to keep my infantry "shoulder to shoulder" meaning I have 3 infantry units together, hex to hex, and so I rarely ever see this happen in my games ....

If this is happening in woods .. not much you can do about it ... formed infantry vs. skirmishers in woods was always a problem. Just ask Braddock and Washington about it!

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)

Hmmmm, sounds like its taking the phrase 'chosen men' to the extreme. Definitely lacks realism and while I know the games are only facsimiles of reality I agree that playing as close to historical accuracy as possible is important.

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Field Marshal Sir Michael Davies, 1st Duke of Glamorgan K.T.
23rd Regiment of Light Dragoons
3rd British Cavalry Brigade
Cavalry Corps

Dum vivimus vivamus

Mike - its the old case of "no game can ever fully recreate history." And the more detailed it becomes the more the problem rears its head. Its the old "Whack a mole" problem: you settle one problem but another one springs up.

Its why I always play with the No Retreat Overruns rule ON. Why should skirmishers in the REAR hexes of a formed unit be punished? My call when that rule was added was to just push them skirmisher out of the way like a defending unit is when it loses the melee. Perhaps this could happen in a future update.

I just go by the standard that we need to guard our units. An Austrian Jager or Hungarian Grenzer unit helps their line infantry immensely. Detach those skirmishers to protect the large battalions ... or better yet ... go into Extended Line with those big units and then form them into Column. <THUMBSUP> to have two supporting units.

Warren Bajan's OBs always had the big Austrian battalions split off into two separate OB units .... not only in practice, he would say, but it also helped in those circumstances. One could protect the other.

Another option is to use the Multiple Infantry Melees too.

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)

Afaik skirmishers were not used that way, that is why my recommendation is to turn the OR "No Retreat Overruns" OFF, gamey behavior should not be allowed or even rewarded.
I'm not sure why I should let a player get away with that, of course one can say when the attacker is stopped by defensive skirmishers then its also okay when the defender is stopped by attackers skirmishers but gamey behavior, but that all just doesn't move the players to use the skirmishers realistically.
The need to protect the flank comes already from the game engine in general like having units fire from outside your front arc on you, and from the OR Flank Morale Modifier that also fosters flank protection, no need to allow gamey behavior to make defenders protect their flanks. In the end it is up to them, but will get punished if not doing so.

And when we see that advancements the engine has made I'm sure they sooner or later come up with a solution to the skirmisher mess. Preferably just letting formed units(that are bigger then the skirmishers in a hex) shift the skirmishers, units are shifted all the time so why not them & why not in the movement phase, all a matter of working the process out & integrating it into the engine.

Now, what should Multiple Infantry Melees do? I can attack a unit more then just once a turn but the attacker still has to change, I doubt there is the need to attack a skirmisher unit multiple times, just don't poke them with your finger but hit him with your fist.


Besides all this, Garret's problem mainly comes from much of his army being fixed, maybe a scenario problem because it's hard to understand that he already has contact with the enemy but is still largely fixed.

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