Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

I was curious how everyone feels about this rule. I am starting to like it less and less. What is it supposed to simulate? A loss of morale? I am finding in some of my JA games that after a successful cavalry charge (at least in terms of casualties inflicted vs. recv'd) my French adversaries seem to have adopted a strategy of trying to isolate my cavalry and then attack them later, rather than immediately countercharging. I think this is a bit gamey, but have not mentioned it since it is entirely legal. So as Prussian player I have a huge cavalry force but often not enough infantry to advance and support them with the result I have a choice of charging and getting isolated (a one shot chance,)or simply sit there and posture while the enemy takes the imitative. Since I don't like house rules I may just not agree to play with the isolation rule in effect anymore. I know I am not the grand tactical wizard that some of you guys are so I wanted to see how others (especially allied players) feel about the isolation rules.

Also anyone playing me past or present this post is not in regards to any one situation, or game, it's just a pattern of good players taking what the game engine gives.[:D][;)]



Major General Ed Blackburn
Commanding Second Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards

Hi Ed
I usually play with the Isolation rule and prefer it mainly because it provides some disadvantage to units that are surrounded. I am sure you would agree surrounded units were less than 100% combat effective in most occassions in the Napoleonic wars. It is also an important rule if you have NME ticked as it allows units to be eliminated if they are surrounded and rout.

Like all of the rules though there are limitations and I must confess to surrounding disordered cavalry with my infantry to blaze away if I get the chance. The best way to resolve the problem you are facing is to avoid using cavalry as a single arm. I always try to use all 3 arms in close cooperation.

Cavalry is particularly vunerable in HPS which I agree is a bit unhistoric but such is the nature of the game. On the tabletop we do not have zoc but we play simultaneous moves so it is not really neccessary

My 5 cents [:D]



Colonel Colin Knox,
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur
La Jeune Garde
IIIe Corps ADN
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

I agree with Colonel Knox. One more thought: the best way not to get your cavalry isolated is to have it charge <i>en masse</i> on a broad front. If you charge with four squadrons, they are likely to become stuck in enemy lines and surrounded. But a cavalry corps isn't isolated so easily.

<center>
[url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_walter/NWC/16thLD.htm"][/url]
Brig. Gen. D.S. "Green Horse" Walter
~ 16th (The Queen's) Light Dragoons ~
4th Brigade, Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps
----------
~ 3rd (Prince of Wales's) Dragoon Guards ~
[url="http://www.geocities.com/militaireacademie/"][/url]
</center>

I dislike the isolation rule, and will not play with it. I understand the concept that it is trying to simulate, that of a unit in short supply, and probably questionable moral, but that being said, the problem is the penalties imposed on said units. Once isolated the unit really has no chance to save itself. With the negative penalties to its melee attacks, particularly coupled with the fact that it is most likely disordered, it cannot win a melee, thus has no chance to break free. Since the game engine routs units rather arbitrarily, and sometimes/frequently does leave adjacent units in a rather unviable position, there should be some recourse for the effected commander. With isolation, that commander has no recourse other than to hope his opponent makes a tactical blunder. Add ZOC, and you have a real mess. The unit has no chance. Am I rambling here, does this make sense?

Ensign William Davis
23rd (Royal Welsh) Fusiliers

Sounds almost as bad as rushing in with a 4 or 5 squadron charge and then seeing perhaps 8 or 9 skirmisher units surround the cavalry and fire into it.

I never liked this but I guess it is just punishment for using the Horse on thier own.

Oh well.



Lt. Colonel Angelo Abruzzese,
12e Chasseurs à Cheval
2e Brigade, 3e Division Cavalerie
IIIe Corps ADN

Maybe it would be more realistic if it took a few turns for isolation to take effect (especially in JA).[B)]

Major General Ed Blackburn
Commanding Second Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by WillieD13</i>
<br />Once isolated the unit really has no chance to save itself. With the negative penalties to its melee attacks, particularly coupled with the fact that it is most likely disordered, it cannot win a melee, thus has no chance to break free.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Ensign Davis,

An isolated unit does NOT have any "penalties to its melee attacks," so they can, and often do, manage to break out of an encirclement on their own. The effects of isolation are: 1) 50% Strength when DEFENDING vs. melee; 2) Lowered morale (and "detached" unless BG CO is stacked with it); 3) Routed and Isolated units have "0" defense and will "surrender" if they are meleed AND it is not stacked with a friendly unit that can mount a defense.

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal M. Francisco Palomo
Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Ecole Militaire
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde</i>

sorry going away from the topic a little.

I think lots of players dont like the idea of getting Isolated and lossing men to kills,
Should there be in the Victory box a Surrender . Less points than a kill. and the defender is given the chance to surrender or fight on being Isolated .[;)]



<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red"> Commandant 1ème Division de Cuirassiers,
1 Corps Res Cav,ADN.

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

Actually, in some ways, a surrender is worth "more" than a kill. Now, taking prisoners and the like is always a problem logistically, but from the incidents I know of (not only in the Nap wars, but others on either side of the era), when a unit would surrender, that unit would end up being pretty much disgraced, even if they'd had a good reputation before. So, the morale "advantage" of taking enemy units would fit their having the same VP as "killed" troops.

I wouldn't want to see the side commander get to choose "surrender or fight on" either. That's one of those cases where the local unit will do what it will. They "made their choice" when they routed.

Feldmarschall Freiherr Gary McClellan
Generalissimus Imperial Austrian Army
Portner Grenadier Bn
Allied Coalition C-in-C

With the new NME rule you HAVE to use Isolation or else the surrounded units can last alot longer.

For cavalry Ed, dont continue on into the enemies rear. I like to just hit the front line and maybe one hex into the line and then stop and bring up some supports.

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />With the new NME rule you HAVE to use Isolation or else the surrounded units can last alot longer.

For cavalry Ed, dont continue on into the enemies rear. I like to just hit the front line and maybe one hex into the line and then stop and bring up some supports.

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Good point Bill, I totally forgot about the NME relationship.

Major General Ed Blackburn
Commanding Second Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards