Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Who was the true Hero of Waterloo my vote goes to; for the Allies de ‘Earl of Uxbridge and Baron Lt General Perponcher –Sedinitzy and the French Baron General Jacquinot. Who's yours?

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

By god Clifton ,
Major R . Sharp . Plus the Irish guy that took the pig in the Film.[:D]Just messing ..

It would have to be only one . Thats Wellington him self. Anyother Commander would have lost that battle .[;)]

<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red">
La Commandeur, II Corps
ADN

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

Monsieur le Marechal Ney is my hero

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[img]</center>
<center>Monsieur le Marechal Baron John Corbin
Commanding L'Armee du Rhin
Grande Duc de Piave et Comte de Beauvais
Commanding the Division de Cavalerie de la Moyenne Garde
NWC President</center>

Napoleon of course. Despite his hubris and failings he is still histories greatest soldier IMHO

Salute!

General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

I go for Blucher. Without Blucher the Anglo-Allies were toast. With butter on top! [8D]

Now here comes Scott I imagine ... [:p][:p][:p][8D][;)]

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Well beat this; on 18 June between 1; 30 and 3; 30 pm fate however, made a timely intervention in the shape of the Earl of Uxbridge. Just moments ago he was arranging Bulls howitzer to shell the French moving to the left of the Chaussee, he saw at once the gravity of the situation. It was he that ordered Somerset to prepare to form a line then it was him who galloped over to Ponsonby’s told him to wheel into a line then he set the Heavies in motion. Napoleon and his staff watched the calamity unfold before them. Never had the British cavalry been used in such a daring fashion and with such results. The ‘sixty per cent chances’ which the Emperor had given his men against the Allies had been wiped out by ‘who’ Uxbridge’s Charge.

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

Oh Mon ami Commander Sharp was a Col in 1815![:D][8D]

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

Unfortunately the true hero was Blucher of course! As Bill puts it without him the Allies were "petit dejeuner"!
Oh and also the Prussian officer with 20/20 vision (maybe operational genuis!) who identified Wavre in the doom and gloom!!

John I'm sorry but Ney was the villian in this case. Ney was in grand tactical command and failed badly, Napoleon must shoulder partial blame for the lack of supervision. Ney had already stuffed up on the 16th and reports seem to indicate he was even more erratic than normal. Napoleon was complacent and it permiated the commanders.

But even so ....so close!!

Lt Col Mike Ellwood
Konig Regt
1 Bde, 22 Div
VII Saxon Corps, ADR

Ney was great in a role where an assault had to be made and he was the LOCAL commander. I often feel that he was over his head as a corps commander and certainly he was no army commander.

Of all of the accounts I read of him he is best suited to an assault where the plan is clear and he is at the head of his troops. He was no Soult as far as corps command level goes and certainly not as good as Lannes or Davout.

Perhaps he, Augerau and Oudinot are in the same category. Give them anything larger than a column of troops and I think they are out of their element.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

I put it to the club members did they beat the true hero’s of Waterloo or is the contest still up in the air. Here is proof an English Commander bettered the fame I Corps causing the odds to fall on a French Victory no matter what General Forward did later if this didn’t happen it would have not been a close run thing what do ju think? Ney was way out of his league and old Nappy was down with the Hemorrhoids and old Addy was looking over the hills for Les Prussiens! Lets hear your views.

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

Bill,

My readings have me believe Ney was in fact the overall battlefield commander for the day, defacto, by defualt, designated or not, he was the one in the position to manoeuvre the Corps and divisions (although the Corps commanders would have something to say!)due to his standing with L'Emperor on the day, his forceful nature and reputation (fragile as it was at that stage).

He should have been overseeing more closley the combined tactical operation on the battlefield (Grand Tactical)and could have intervened at the tactical level a lot sooner. He did eventually late in the massed cav charges by bring forward guns and requesting infantry support, all too late!. That support was within his power to have organised/coordinated prior to the large cav operation.

As an aside, there is some debate whether that massed cavalry assualt was supposed to include so many regts/bdes. Some vague but recent sources (French) suggest it got out of hand and took on a life of its own. Quite pluasible I feel.

Also Ney may have been the only one, other than Napoleon, that could have stopped Jerome's action around Hougomount getting out of hand or at least better supported and coordinated it.

Thats my view of it anyway. I would like to know more about how Napoleon gave his orders on the morning and what the Corps Commanders understanding and impression of their part in was. I have only found limited resources surrounding that. I am a bit dubious of Napoleon's memiors of the event [;)].

Lt Col Mike Ellwood
Konig Regt
1 Bde, 22 Div
VII Saxon Corps, ADR

Cliff,

I think if VI Corps and the Young Guard were available for the attack on the Anglo-Dutch Napoleon would have achieved a victory despite the repulse of D'Erlons Corps(-) attack. They could have supported the massed cavalry attacks or gone in up the centre in advance of the Middle Guard (not the Old Guard!).

It was a stalemate against the Anglo-Dutch becuase Blucher arrived in time with enough troops to tip the balance heavily in the Allied favour and win the day.

Where OH where was Grouchy!! He too must share in the blame...he should have marched to the sound of the guns [V].

Lt Col Mike Ellwood
Konig Regt
1 Bde, 22 Div
VII Saxon Corps, ADR

Bonjou Mike a good book that gives it all Waterloo new Perspsctives the Great Battle Reappraised by David Hamilton-Williams forward by the Marquess of Anglesey.

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

The reason I picked Lt General Baron Perponcher-Sedlnitzky to give the hero of Waterloo medal to is because he decided to ignore Wellingtons orders and chose to hold Quatre Bras .He bettered the Advance Guard of Ney and Ney had to use Kellermann’s Cheval to pull him out of there or save the day if you well. Can you beat this one ?

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

Monsieur’s another that should get the Waterloo hero award is General Augustus Graf Neithard Von Gneisenau he tock over Command when the Old General was lying under his horse (I guess the old guy needed a nap also)! It was he who ordered the retreat to Wavre. Working with, not Marshal forward but a Col by the name of Von Reiche they sent the Army to Wavre.

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS