Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

On its way

Generaal
2de Brigade
2de Nederlandsche Div
I Corps
Anglo Allied Army

Colin - yes, I didnt take it personally. I have no problem with people using the older update (1.02). This doesnt have to be the last word on the morale issue either. I just dont want to see French units routing all over the place when I play this game after only having had taken 10 losses.

Lots of folks are playing with Rout Limiting OFF and frankly I dont care much for that but thankfully all of my opponents keep that option ON.

Anyway enjoy and remember - you can use the new update with the old OB file if you use the formula I have outlined here and in other threads.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Thanks Bill you are a gent.
I am over my stand now [:D] just wanted to say how much I liked it as is.

By the way historically speaking I agree French morale should be higher I was only looking at the game balance really.

Salute!

General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

Actually if you note that although the French army beats up on the Prussian in the historical Jena battle that the victory conditions are VERY hard for them to win. This is why I am kind of surprised at the comments. From what I have found for the French to win any of the scenarios is very hard with two competant players. If the Prussians press in the large map, Jena-Auerstedt battle then they can end up getting cut up but if they play wait and see there is a good chance that they will hold off the French long enough to win.

Muddy is usually very aggressive in his games and probably came after the French. I have yet to hear of a Prussian player that fell back from Jena to beat up on Davout. If I am wrong about that game that Muddy played in I apologize in advance but from what I heard he went on the offensive ...

In other games - I cant remember getting a victory as the French. So all I ask is that you look at it in that light. Auersteadt for instance is hard for Davout to win. Again, perhaps I could use the

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Actually if you note that although the French army beats up on the Prussian in the historical Jena battle that the victory conditions are VERY hard for them to win. This is why I am kind of surprised at the comments. From what I have found for the French to win any of the scenarios is very hard with two competant players. If the Prussians press in the large map, Jena-Auerstedt battle then they can end up getting cut up but if they play wait and see there is a good chance that they will hold off the French long enough to win.

Muddy is usually very aggressive in his games and probably came after the French. I have yet to hear of a Prussian player that fell back from Jena to beat up on Davout. If I am wrong about that game that Muddy played in I apologize in advance but from what I heard he went on the offensive ...

In other games - I cant remember getting a victory as the French. So all I ask is that you look at it in that light. Auersteadt for instance is hard for Davout to win. Again, perhaps I could use the new Fix ability in the scenario editor to fix the Prussians at times during the game that might help.

Again, other than in one Halle game I saw I cant remember the Prussians losing a scenario. Even in the large campaign actions the victory levels are such that the Prussians can fight for a day or two and exit the map and usually come out ahead.

And again, folks that play agressively as the Prussians are probably not going to win where the French have the numbers.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Monsieur; why you should do it! I will do it because reason # 1 if ever they come out with a Nap in Spain it would be the Anglish with an over all advantage and since Spain is considered a non Armee in this club along with Italy then they would hurriedly make such an Armee to counter balance the game. #2 when they put out an 1813 game then the French will be in real trouble put aside from that fact most French do play one another. I believe you will not lack opponents. The future is just around the corner when I stared in this club in 97 most of the members are now gone I only lasted a few month then because of the Big games Talonsoft. New members will come and go so I would not be worried about who will play, but whom will still be playing by then. Monsieur General Peters looks to the future of the games not to the past but that my opinion not all will agree but watch what the future holds. Once I finish my games I will up grade and my add to play 533 turns will still be there! Monsieur Bill ju can't please every one none but your self keep it like it is ! Greetings from de Golphe Du Mexique Rep de Galveston [:D][8D]

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

Pardon moi but how many do play Jena NRC and Waterloo compared to the easy win Talonsoft games?

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

[quote]<i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />Muddy is usually very aggressive in his games and probably came after the French. I have yet to hear of a Prussian player that fell back from Jena to beat up on Davout. If I am wrong about that game that Muddy played in I apologize in advance but from what I heard he went on the offensive ...
[quote]

<font color="yellow">Bill: You know me too well. I was aggressive at Jena because I tried to concentrate the Prussians there. It was very bad strategy. Much better to concentrate against Davout and run away at Jena.</font id="yellow">

FM Sir 'Muddy' Jones, KG
2nd Life Guards, Household Cavalry

The victory points level was one of the advantages for Prussia, it sort of balanced out the game, now even more so w/the higher French morale.

I <b>don't</b> agree that the Prussian commanders should have higher command ratings, it was a bad command. But their men also should not get lower ratings. It was a good army led by bad leaders.

I will see how the defensive works when I get to taking up a game in it.

<center>--------------------------------------------------------



General der Infanterie Scott Prinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Allenstein-Dennewitz
(Old Windy) (Windbagfrankfurter) (The Mad Prussian) (Herr Windbagenführer)
Generalquartiermeister der Preußischen Armee
Kommandeur Garde-Grenadier-Korps
Königlich Preußische Armee am Niederrhein
Webmaster & Club Cabinet - Public Relations Officer

Vorwärts Meine Kinder, Vorwärts!!

[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com/"]Königliche Preußische Armee[/url]

[url="http://www.networkforgood.org"]Network for Good[/url]

[url="http://napoleonicwargaming.com"]Napoleonic Wargaming - INWC[/url]</center>

Hi Gents
Yes Muddy's strategy did not work out. I am sure he plotting his revenge for next time we meet.

In our guards challenge game in the same large map scenario Antony Barlow is aggresively attacking Tomasz at Auerstedt and Tomasz well of course is attacking back. Anton Kosyanenko is defending valiantly at Jena vs me. Which is the model you propose Bill.

This game is under patch 1.02. So far its a very balanced fight, we have rout limiting on.

At move 22 the French have reached around 2800vps (draw) but the Prussians in their last move dealt their first descent blow at Auerstedt so we shall see where it heads.

As the French player I really like the balance. We have four skilled officers playing so there is no weak link. Anton probably has the hardest job (defending at Jena) but Ruchel will no doubt be marching to the sound of the guns so it will be interesting.

I think the players in this game would universally agree there is no need for higher French morale. Tomasz might disagree but based on discussion to date perhaps not.

Salute!

General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

Colin - certainly to use the term universal agreement is wrong. I dont agree - that means its not universal and I COULD name six others who wrote me in the past that said the same thing.

So I think your statement a tad incorrect. I am going to see the day when the update gets accepted by the majority of the gamers because to remain behind the times will really fragment the gaming community. As I said before, just use the older OB but rename it and copy any scenario/PDT file you want to match it - but use the update. It makes not sense to lead the charge as some of you guys are to not upgrade. In the end you will just confuse folks with terms like "universal" and "dont break it if aint fixed." It was not fixed or right - I got feedback on it. Please stop projecting yourself and the guys like you as the majority voice. Reminds me too much of the media.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Hey Bill
Completely crossed wires.

I meant the 4 players in the game I am playing in not all players. I certainly would not presume to know what everyone thinks. [:)]. Indeed one of those four players may disagree with me too.

You were just asking for an example of a Prussian defense at Jena and an offense at Auerstedt which I think the game I am playing in fitted your description perfectly. It is how I formed my view really (on top of 3 other previous Jena games).

I am not hung up on it though Bill after this game like most I will load the patch. Like I said before just voicing my view which you seem pretty dismissive of, your right totally I guess.

cheers
Colin

General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

Colin,
Bill's ideas about the PDT are right on. You can keep the stacking etc you like and get the new engine changes. The only problems are the unit morale, which I am still undecided on...

Feldmarschall Jim 'Prinz' Pfluecke
Commander, Austrian Cavalry Reserve
3 Graf O'Reilly Chevauxleger Rgt
Hahn Grenadier Bn

Bill

I think Colin is not against your patch. He is just saying that he has the impression that the Allied players disagrees with some of changes made and he fears that they will not charge the patch. But may be I misunderstood his messages ?
You will have always a problem with two "poles" : historicity and playability. I think your patch (and the game)is correct in the plan of historicity but may be, unbalanced in the plan of the playability.
I think we (NWc's officer) must accept that.


Anyway, Speaking for myself, I bought the game and I will install the patch. I'm sure that most of the NWc's officers will do the same. I will be always with you because I know that without you, I will not have so good games to play.
And I must say that Jena is my favourite game like Colin.

Thanks for your hard work !

Eh Colin, please seat here. Bill and me are welcoming your good new Zealand wine ![:D]

A la santé de Bill ! Vive Bill ! [:p][:p][:p][:p]

To the Colin invincibility ! at Jena and evrywhere [:p]

Regards

Marechal Lamezec
Prince et Comte de Davout
French CIC

I've made a second installation just so I can complete my game with Anton, Tomasz and Colin with 1.02. All my future games will be with the latest patch. I'm in favour of most of the changes in the latest patch, just not 100% sure about the French morale - but I acknowledge the argument on historicity and will continue to enjoy the game, no matter how hard it is to win. I do like a challenge[:D]. Jena is a superb game.[8D]

<center>[url="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.r.barlow/Napoleonic/nap.htm"]Brigadier General Antony Barlow[/url]
~ [url="http://www.geocities.com/anglo_allied_army_stats/Anglo_Allied_Army_Cavalry_Corps.htm"]2nd British (Union) Brigade, Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps[/url] ~
~ [url="http://www.geocities.com/militaireacademie/dragoons.html"]4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards[/url] ~
</center>