Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Monsieur de Col oui, just think how fast a HP game would go if some of if not all the units below 50% were made to go on defends and stand down. No longer would you be fighting numbers but unit that are ready to fight I have been surrounded by less then 35% and because of EM on my unit or units were lost.

General de Brig Kliff Marbot
II Corps Art Res Division .Commander
Marechal de Camp AN

Monsieur de Col oui, just think how fast a HP game would go if some of if not all the units b) Disordered unit may attack/advance only with a leader as well; No longer would you be fighting numbers but unit in good moral. Disordered means disordered with or with out the modifier.

General de Brig Kliff Marbot
II Corps Art Res Division .Commander
Marechal de Camp AN

If the 50% strength rule is accurate the battle of Borodino would never have happened the entire French army's roster was virtually below half strength at BTN level.

Or how about the KGL in the La Haye Saint....or the Russian infantry at Borodino. Not historic in my opinion.

However I do agree the morale rules should make units break and loose cohesion easier. A general rule of 50% is nice if you want to play that way but I don't think you can claim it is historical.

Also if you attack with a disordered unit it fights at 1/3 capacity so generally speaking its a bad tactic anyway as you are consuming your forces for low yield. Poor generalship.

[:D]

General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

Monsieur General I get that ju disargee with every thing is there any thing that you don't know know! Ju should talk to the man that wrote this or maybe say something that would be nice mesi! I argree with his 50% rule as well as his low moral who in the French armee are training not me that was sure ! We have never cross swords !

General de Brig Kliff Marbot
II Corps Art Res Division .Commander
Marechal de Camp AN

Hi Colin,

The 50% rule in the board games is calculated from the beginning of the battle, so it's more about losing a lot of guys that were standing around a few minutes earlier and the immediate morale effect of that than losses over a campaign. Situations like La Haye Saint can still happen as that was a defensive stand and also is usually covered by some kind of special rule or terrain benefit (which often includes a morale bonus).

The effect of losing BCE makes the units more brittle and thus not as good at offensive operations, but not as if they weren't there. But as you say, it's about breaking and losing cohesion more easily and not allowing every single unit to fight to the death no matter the situation. In the systems I've played, 50% is a rule of thumb - elite units have to be almost annihilated to be affected, whereas green units/militia are affected after only a (relatively) few casualties.


Lt. Col. Sean Turner
1er Dragons
2ème Division de Dragons
Ier Corps de Réserve de Cavalerie
l'Armee du Nord

Hi Sean and Cliff
Cliff no offense intended I just wanted to illustrate a point about history. That is it's debatable. I get a little weary of people holding up complex house rules as somehow definitive, when they are no more than just an opinion on history. As are my opinions.

These same people then accuse other people of being gamey for being good at the game within the context of HPS's game engine. Which is HPS's opinion of history. All just opinions [:D]. Thats not to say I don't like some house rules (MOE).

Sean I am a table top player too and the strength at the start of the move rule has a big impact on morale in our games. I would add I believe this is reflected in the HPS game through battle fatigue. That is if a unit reaches 50% its usually medium or high fatigue which effects its morale rating by -1 or -2. So a C grade line unit can rapidly become an E grade one.

The main problem in my view is that units can only rout when defending.

If the engine were changed around this I think the game would become more realistic. Eg A high fatigue C quality unit would find it hard to frontally assault any formed unit that gave it some heavy fire.

Salute!





General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm