Colonial Campaigns Club (CCC)

Obviously, cannon have an odd place in the 1776/1812 system. As a rule, they are pretty weak, but very valuable in terms of VP. Now, I realize the historical point that this reflects, that having even a few small cannon was a serious morale boost for the troops, especially if they were not elite troopers.

However, that got me thinking. There are any number of examples from different battles (across eras) where a battery of captured artillery became the focus of a fight, where one side tried to defend/escape with their prize, while the other tried to recapture their guns.

So, what would people think of a mod where this was possible. Say, a gun that was lost and then recaptured would be "out of the battle" in terms of being unusable, but worth many fewer VP to the side that took it out. (this would also apply to guns taken down by enemy fire). You would only get full VP if you actually held it or got it off map.

How would this work? When you overrun a gun, you can then begin to move it (but not fire it), perhaps removing troops from the capturing units to reflect the "work party" doing this.

This would have a couple of hoped for effects.
1) it would create those "mini-battles" that you read about from time to time
2) it would heavily discourage "kamikaze" attacks on guns, as the chances of getting away with them would be very limited.

So, would this be a worthwhile idea to pass on to JT?

Ensign Gary McClellan
12th Virgina Light Dragoons
CO, Northern Department

It would have to be an engine change requiring gun crews to be present, so as to change ownership of the guns as happens now with supply wagons.

A simpler method would be to create an artillery train in the oob. This could represent all the equipage that goes along with a cannon. One would need to code it with a Supply Wagon code, so that it would change sides. This 'train' would appear on the map as a supply wagon, although the unit title box would give it away, unless you altered the bmp files. This 'special' wagon would cost the same as any other supply wagon, meaning a designer could set the price, in terms of VPs, per 10 strength points. It would be a universal setting.

But this approach would give you the back and forth struggle you're looking for. Supply Wagons can be taken and retaken in melee, but they lose 50% strength with each change of possession.

I've seen it used to create a valuable, vunerable army train players needed to protect. I liked the idea, then and now.

I would recommend a 1-1 ratio between these battery wagons and guns. Of course the existence of the battery wagon would have no effect on the firing or movement of a gun.

The big drawback to this method is that the wagon supplies ammo to anybody in low ammo status, in a big battle your battery wagon could be used up by nieghboring infantry.

Another method would be to create an artillery unit that is armed with swords, do this by giving it a weapons class X and put a -1 in the pdt file next to X and then the unit can't fire. It will have a stacking value of 50 men, melee value of 8 men and be as expensive as a gun, and moves as a gun, and will look the same unless you alter the bmp files, easy to do in this case.

I've seen this done as well, it works too.

Both methods create additional defenseless, valuable units players will need to protect.

By assigning points to supply wagons, and increasing the number of wagons, by either method described above, designers can move away from an objective hex that represents where the supply train is ... just off map. The supply train can be right there with you, very much in the way.

Gives a good reason to strike your opponent's rear, and makes it much more difficult to face an attack from the rear than a simple about face, as you would then have to move your army's tail out of the way.

Its a good idea Gary and there are some ways of implementing it.

Lt. Col. Al Amos
1st U.S. Dragoons 1812-R

Edited by - Al Amos on 05/21/2002 23:30:24

Edited by - Al Amos on 05/21/2002 23:38:33

Of course, one thing about is that you'd have to set those units as being unable to be withdrawn.

That comes close to the idea, though I'd like to see the acutal cannon you are using being traded back and forth, but only John Tiller could make that change.

Ensign Gary McClellan
12th Virgina Light Dragoons
CO, Northern Department

Honestly the battery wagon or caisson, whichever title you prefered, would be kept 1000 yards to the rear of the army.

The gun carries a small amount of ammo with it and when it is gone the gun is wihdrawn to the rear for replenishment.

This system is altered during the Napoleonic era (War of 1812) by which time train troops are militarized and permant company/batteries are formed. Then batteries move as self-contained units and as ammo wagons at the battery's location become empty they are or can be sent back to the trains for resupply from the divisional parc, who in turn draws from the corps parcs when necessary.

This allowed the guns to stay on the line longer.

The above is a generalization, as each nation differed, some doing the above others still withdrawing batteries when ammo was depleted.

Most of the excess baggage and trains will be 1,000 - 3,000 behind the army. Not all of our maps are big enough to account for that.

Actually, infantry resupply should take place in the second line, not in the first. as units in the first battle line that run low on ammo, the battalion they belong to should rotate to the second line where the units can then resupply from wagons that are five hexes or so behind the second line.

Bringing the wagons to the front, as many of us do is not the correct method for the period. On the attack, battalions that have units go 'low ammo' should be halted and withdrawn to waogns following at a 'safe' distance (750-1,000 yards.) yes this means your attack loses steam, but read the books and you will see references to attacks running out of steam, this is one reason why, low ammo. So you pull back, regroup, resupply and launch a second attack (and hope the defender didn't launch a counter assault!)

Well, enough historical tactics talk for now, Sir Natta just nodded off. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Would someone get his mole out of his beer? I would hate for him to wake up and drink it <img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>!

Lt. Col. Al Amos
1st U.S. Dragoons 1812-R

Al, right. Just a bit of apples and oranges here I suspect. I said that you couldn't withdraw your gun-wagons, just so that someone doesn't say "well, they don't do me any good, are expensive in VP, so I'll get em out of dodge and out of the way" which defeats the whole idea.



Ensign Gary McClellan
12th Virgina Light Dragoons
CO, Northern Department