Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Guys,

From one of the last posts came a request for more hypothetical maps. Rick Motko and one other I think laid out the case for them.

I have put several together for my next game but wanted you to see a part of one map I just did tonite.

Here it is in all its splendor:

(link was removed as per my note)

Bill Peters
Former NWC President, Club Founder, Prussian and Austrian Army Founder, Stefan Reuter's hunting buddy.

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Inventive. I think I recognize the area.[:D][:p]

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
GdD,1e Brig,1eme Div,VI Corps,AdR
President, Colonial Campaign Club
</b></font id="gold">

Bill,
I'm really convinced now. You've really lost it.

Just how are infantry, artillery, and cavalry supposed to get from one place to another with all that water in the way?

I spoke about hypothetical maps for land warfare during the Napoleonic Era. One would assume that was what you were querying us about since that does have <font color="red"><b>something</b></font id="red"> to do with this club.

Or is this map for some kind of a naval game? If so, there is too much land.

Rick

Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Le Tondu</i>
<br />Bill,
I'm really convinced now. You've really lost it.

Just how are infantry, artillery, and cavalry supposed to get from one place to another with all that water in the way?

I spoke about hypothetical maps for land warfare during the Napoleonic Era. One would assume that was what you were querying us about since that does have <font color="red"><b>something</b></font id="red"> to do with this club.

Or is this map for some kind of a naval game? If so, there is too much land.

Rick

Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

we could use Transporters

Monsieur le Marechal Baron John Corbin
Duc de Paive
Commanding the Division de Cavalerie de la Jeune Garde
NWC President

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by John Corbin</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Le Tondu</i>
<br />Bill,
I'm really convinced now. You've really lost it.

Just how are infantry, artillery, and cavalry supposed to get from one place to another with all that water in the way?

I spoke about hypothetical maps for land warfare during the Napoleonic Era. One would assume that was what you were querying us about since that does have <font color="red"><b>something</b></font id="red"> to do with this club.

Or is this map for some kind of a naval game? If so, there is too much land.

Rick

Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

we could use Transporters

Monsieur le Marechal Baron John Corbin
Duc de Paive
Commanding the Division de Cavalerie de la Jeune Garde
NWC President
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Excellant call John. I have come upon a method of allowing units to move on water that should work. Havent figured it all out yet but should have it ready for the game release. I will let you know in email how I think it will work and we can test it out.

Meanwhile, here is another screenshot of a map I have done that is more to Rick's way of thinking of what a good hypothetical map should be.

The link will only be good for another day. I dont want this page to become some sort of official preview of the game. This was just for the NWC guys to view.

(link was removed as per my note)

Rick M. - think diverse. There are guys out there that asked me to do a map like this. You are not the only fish in the pond my friend.

Bill Peters
Former NWC President, Club Founder, Prussian and Austrian Army Founder, Stefan Reuter's hunting buddy. HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Funny maps Bill [:D]

<font color="green"> <b>Général de Division David Guégan Comte de Toulon, Duc de Nimes</b>
Co 11eme division
III Corps, AdN
Co Division d'Infanterie de la Jeune Garde, Garde Impériale


http://home.earthlink.net/~davidguegan/</font id="green">

Bill,

Please, make as many of these maps as you like. I'm not trying to stop you. [:)] I'd only prefer that they be remotely European in nature.

The fact remains that when <font color="orange">Black Powder Wars: Battles of Napoleon</font id="orange"> and <font color="orange">Les Grognards</font id="orange"> (latest word is it should be out in late February) comes out, it won't matter any longer. We'll finally be free to make our own maps. [8D][8D][8D]

Cheers,
Rick

Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!

capability does not always equal abiliity.

Colonel Al Amos
1erè Brigade Commandant
2ème Division de Dragons

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Le Tondu</i>
<br />Bill,

Please, make as many of these maps as you like. I'm not trying to stop you. [:)] I'd only prefer that they be remotely European in nature.

The fact remains that when <font color="orange">Black Powder Wars: Battles of Napoleon</font id="orange"> and <font color="orange">Les Grognards</font id="orange"> (latest word is it should be out in late February) comes out, it won't matter any longer. We'll finally be free to make our own maps. [8D][8D][8D]

Cheers,
Rick

Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Well one member (who deleted his response) thought that they looked like Denmark. That still is in Europe right? Hope it hasnt drifted away.

And if you go back to the days of these wars they were fought in places other than in Europe. I do remember Napoleon going to Egypt to fight. Oh yeah and how about the islands where the British fought French and Spanish garrisons? Then you have the Haiti rebellion.

Lots of terrain in places other than Europe to do. I plan on making a map of where I used to live in California for the game. Lots of orchards and old movie stars homes! (Barbara Stanwick lived about 2 miles from my house back in the 50s.)

Bill Peters
Former NWC President, Club Founder, Prussian and Austrian Army Founder, Stefan Reuter's hunting buddy. HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Al Amos</i>
<br />capability does not always equal abiliity.

Colonel Al Amos
1erè Brigade Commandant
2ème Division de Dragons


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Colonel Al,
You're absolutely correct and cryptic, but doesn't a choice exist in there somewhere?

Doesn't a capability become an ability when a decision to fulfill that capability is made? People are capable of doing lots of things and for many that is where it stays until that very first step is taken. In other words, that first decision to become something more than what they were.

For instance, you didn't know how to wargame before you decided to learn how, did you? You certainly were capable of wargaming before you decided to. You made the decision and now it is an ability. A very good one from what I have been able to tell. [:)]

If you are referring to the two new games on the horizon, they do state that there will be a comprehensive map editor when they are released. One covers all places and periods within the entire Napoleonic Era in 2D. The other one covers all places and periods dealing with France, Russia, Austria, and minor nations along with Lestocq's Prussians in 1807 ---in 2D and 3D.

Cheers,
Rick

Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!

Oh no Rick,

What I meant was just because a person has a tool to make a map will he be able to make GOOD maps. hehehe....[:p]

Colonel Al Amos
1erè Brigade Commandant
2ème Division de Dragons

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Al Amos</i>
<br />Oh no Rick,

What I meant was just because a person has a tool to make a map will he be able to make GOOD maps. hehehe....[:p]

Colonel Al Amos
1erè Brigade Commandant
2ème Division de Dragons


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

[:D][:D][:D]

I have no doubt that many of the amateur (meaning they do it for free) map makers out there will do justice to the period. Its not a problem with me as it just spurs me on to make better maps. I was never opposed to another game that could give us a run for our money.

Will the new game and its modules and followon campaign game be better than ours?

Well I looked at the screenshots today of Tim and Frank's game and it looks very good. Remembering what Tim and Drew were after to begin with there is no doubt that if they get the game out the door it will do well.

What doest that mean for HPS? More than likely some lost sales as folks have said from the git go that they think we charge too much for what we give them OR we dont give them enough for what they pay for.

The former means that they think that they should pay less for the product while the latter says we should have included more for the amount they paid.

How will we respond? By making the same product more or less. To overly respond will pretty much knock our production cycle out of whack. For instance: John is usually working on more than one engine at a time and to let one go to try and boost another by a huge stellar leap is going to hurt his new work.

And I wont sit here and try and compare apples to oranges. I will continue to make maps, scenarios and order of battle files as well as campaign files. That is what I am being paid to do.

When John decides that the series is not making money and pulls the plug then I will stop working with him. Until then I am going to move along at the same pace. Make more games (hoping to do 4 more including this one I am working on) and enjoy the ride.

You can see how much folks have done with the BG modules and after that HPS stuff. There are alot of guys out there that would like a map editor. I could see giving one away to the public but at this point folks would just think we are trying to compete or react to the Eagle Has Landed module. I am not for reacting. Hopefully we can give it out to the customer once we feel that the series is over. If John wants to give it out sooner then that would be fine with me too.

Nag all you want Rick. It doesnt bother me just as long as you understand that we wont be making a knee jerk reaction. I like our games and I will more than likely enjoy BPW:Battles of Napoleon too.

Lots of good things coming to one of our favorite periods of history. Why should I be down about it? If only Dr. Chandler were still alive - I would buy him a copy of Tim and Frank's game myself!

Bill Peters
Former NWC President, Club Founder, Prussian and Austrian Army Founder, Stefan Reuter's hunting buddy. HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Nope. No nagging here Bill. None at all.

I am incredibly upbeat and looking ahead to a great future for our hobby. I hope to spur HPS/ JT into presenting an even better product.

We all benefit in this. Competition is a win-win situation for all, unless HPS/ JT becomes entrenched --and does nothing different.

HPS/ JT doesn't have to give away the map editor. They can sell it as part of the next game, for heaven's sake.

With that said, I believe that it will take more than just a map editor to right the ship. We don't want to see it sink. We want it to improve immensely. <b> <font color="orange">We always have.</font id="orange"></b>

Also, I see no need to be concerned about <font color="red">"reacting"</font id="red"> to <font color="orange">The Eagle Has Landed Mod --or the Marengo Mod.</font id="orange"> The way that I see it, capitalism and this entire industry is reaction driven. Heck, your very posts are reactions.

(On a side note, the word <font color="orange">reactionary</font id="orange"> originally came from the French Revolution describing anyone who wanted the ancien regime to return. Nowadays, it describes anyone against progress.)

If as you say, JT is usually working on more than one game engine, is there any chance that a new Napoleonic engine is being created? IIRC, in the past you have said that the answer was <b><font color="orange">no</font id="orange"></b>. I'm just wondering if that has changed.

You see, if he was working on a new Napoleonic engine, we would be able to start cheering him on as well. [:)][:)][:)]

Regards,
Rick

Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Le Tondu</i>
<br />Nope. No nagging here Bill. None at all.

I am incredibly upbeat and looking ahead to a great future for our hobby. I hope to spur HPS/ JT into presenting an even better product.

We all benefit in this. Competition is a win-win situation for all, unless HPS/ JT becomes entrenched --and does nothing different.

HPS/ JT doesn't have to give away the map editor. They can sell it as part of the next game, for heaven's sake.

With that said, I believe that it will take more than just a map editor to right the ship. We don't want to see it sink. We want it to improve immensely. <b> <font color="orange">We always have.</font id="orange"></b>

Also, I see no need to be concerned about <font color="red">"reacting"</font id="red"> to <font color="orange">The Eagle Has Landed Mod --or the Marengo Mod.</font id="orange"> The way that I see it, capitalism and this entire industry is reaction driven. Heck, your very posts are reactions.

(On a side note, the word <font color="orange">reactionary</font id="orange"> originally came from the French Revolution describing anyone who wanted the ancien regime to return. Nowadays, it describes anyone against progress.)

If as you say, JT is usually working on more than one game engine, is there any chance that a new Napoleonic engine is being created? IIRC, in the past you have said that the answer was <b><font color="orange">no</font id="orange"></b>. I'm just wondering if that has changed.

You see, if he was working on a new Napoleonic engine, we would be able to start cheering him on as well. [:)][:)][:)]

Regards,
Rick

Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

"Competition is a win-win situation for all"

Tell that to Eastern Airlines.

That competition exists is true. And it doesnt come from Matrix. It comes from every walk of life.

Folks need money to buy our games. They also need money to buy gasoline and feed the baby. Which is why Rich H. and HPS give a discount on the games (5 for 3). Sort of gives you an incentive to save up the bucks rather than just buy it as it comes out.

Matrix is facing the same issue. Folks have money but they can spend it on other hobbies whether it be a stamp or coin collection or to pay for a ticket to see a concert.

Some folks budget their money for games. Thus they say, "Do I buy the latest Matrix game or do I buy a new boardgame or perhaps Age of Empires III."

Thus you are narrowing it down to just two games. There are more games out there that compete with us on sales.

Thus I keep the Napoleonic NICHE market in perspective. They can get a game from HPS which they will know from a proven track record will get improvements or they can buy a Napoleonic computer game from a new vendor (not Matrix) which MAY give them updates.

I try to stay away from getting my expectations up concerning this hobby whether it be concerning my royalty checks or if EiA will come out. If it happens it happens and I take what is given to me and look it over and consider it.

Thus while you may be upbeat I am cautious.

Where you are thinking that competition is good I am thinking that for business it means that one side will eventually cave in unless BOTH have a huge following of loyal fans (Ford vs. Chevy trucks).

When a company takes their loyal fans for granted then they are in trouble (US car companies during the 70s).

None of us that work for John are in that category. We do think that we have a good product but know that Napoleonics is a niche market and doesnt deserve the time and effort from John that his USAF contract gets. If he thinks different then that is his perogative.

I wont pester him for many changes at this point. It needs to be driven from the consumer. Send email to Rich H. via the HPS support line if you have any ideas that you think will fly. I think that we have a good game, could be improved but we only have one programmer. If I am John I go where the dollars are to a large degree. Not react to a new game and try and put nail polish and lipstick on it.

Bill Peters
Former NWC President, Club Founder, Prussian and Austrian Army Founder, Stefan Reuter's hunting buddy. HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Bill,

It is a win-win situation for everyone if HPS/ JT steps up to the plate and bats (ie. improves the Napoleonic engine). From what you've said below, it looks like they are content to just warm the bench and coast along on their past laurels. So be it.

Its sad, but if that's the way that they want it. OK. No problem.

BTW, there are more than two Napoleonic choices. They are <font color="orange">Les Grognards</font id="orange">, <font color="orange">Crown of Glory</font id="orange"> (when they iron out their initial difficulties), <font color="orange">BPW: Battles of Napoleon</font id="orange">, and then there are the <font color="orange">HPS</font id="orange"> titles.

Don't know much about the Eastern Airlines example, but I do know that GM announced not too long ago that they're closing down 5 plants and laying off thousands. Then there is Ford saying that they will close <font color="orange">10</font id="orange"> plants. Dedicated customers you say? With gas prices the way that they've been, it takes something more than dedication to own some of those SUVs and pick up trucks that might get <font color="orange">maybe</font id="orange"> 5 to 7 miles per gallon. IMO, it takes a mental condition. [;)]

The cost of a new game is an issue for some, I'll give you that much, but it isn't THE issue for everyone, all of the time. For some, the issue is how much room is on their HD and what they want to play. For others, its playing something more comprehensive that has better realism and historical correctness. While still for others it will be even more than that.

Ciao.


Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!