Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

I was over at the New Settings Project website and noted that they feel that units had too high of morale in the BG games.

Now frankly I think that the morales in BG were just fine. The comment was that units didnt die to the last man but actually casualties in the series were not always from gunfire or bayonet wounds. They were from loss of cohesion or men running for the rear.

So looked at it from that way the morale settings for the BG games were not bad at all.

And frankly the Russians at many times did die to the last man. Its one of those things that the Fanatical morale tries to portray. Entire battalians getting mowed down by artillery fire but the men remaining passively in formation. Its why fighting the Russians was considered very difficult for Napoleon's men.

Comments?

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Where do I begin? hehehe....

I feel the ratings are too high, but I feel the basic system needs to be revamped. [:D]

Currently, morale is checked with a D6 method. Unforetunately, our unit ratings go from 1-9. That means without any negative modifiers units with ratings of 6,7,8 or 9 won't ever break.

I don't feel this is right. I would like John to change the code so that the morale is checked with a D10 or at least a 1-9 value set. (Of course he would then need to alter some of the optional rules would need to be revised as well.)

Then the entire nine digit range could be used without creating so many superman units.

Until that happens I feel most units should be rated 3, 4 or 5, and leave the 6-9 values alone except for very unusual circumstances or very, special units.

Colonel Al Amos
1erè Brigade Commandant
2ème Division de Dragons

LOL - so what else is knew Al - we dont agree.

First, a 7 morale rated unit shouldnt rout unless it has negative mods. While I understand your desire for a d10 check I personally dont want the OG to rout because it lost 10 men.

Second, most of the units are about morale 4.5 in most of the titles for infantry and about 5.5 for cavalry. This means that for infantry ONLY 66 percent of the time they will pass morale and that is IF they dont have any negative mods. Of course a leader will help them out and so on.

Lastly, the games I am playing, the players like to melee. This means higher fatigue and units rout faster. If on the other hand you are playing a fire-fight type action ... well hey, then you actually can accurately simulate the Prussians standing in line for two hours without running.

But sure, the system is dated and I am sure that something better could be conceived ... [;)]

Going to be interesting to see what JMM's system does with morale.

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Well, I can tell you the that moral thing is too high, I am playing an NIR scenario and in one single attack I just lost the entire Italian Guards and about 12 other units along with a dozen or more Div and Brigade generals.



Lt. Colonel Angelo Abruzzese,
12e Chasseurs à Cheval
2e Brigade, 3e Division Cavalerie
IIIe Corps ADN

the setting were to high IMHO

BG NIR had something called "golden morale". Wether this was an actule morale setting or not I am not sure. What I do know is the it made the Russians supermen.. No army was that good.

Before the NSP stuff came out it was very diificult to win any of the NIR stuff. At least now yiu get a better chance

<center>
[img]</center>
<center>
[img]</center>
<center>Monsieur le Marechal Baron John Corbin
Commanding L'Armee du Rhin
Grande Duc de Piave et Comte de Beauvais
Commanding the Division de Cavalerie de la Moyenne Garde
NWC President</center>

LOL - Napoleon and others remarked how the Russians died in place. The only reason why the Russians didnt die en masse at Borodino is that their general was too smart to leave them there.

Where I think you find the problem is that the players tend to attack far too much and too often.

Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

The French Army rightfully trounced at Borodino in a final attempt to take the Mound.

Losses are staggering:

Infantry : 9600 Men
Cavalry : 4700 Horse and Men
Artillery: 63 Guns
Leaders : 4 Generale de Division
9 Generale de Brigade
3 Colonel
1 Prince Eugene de Beauharnais

-1727 Victory Points

Worse defeat I have ever had even if I have lost quite a few to being crazy with the horses this scenario in NIR has SuperMen in the Russian lines that can halt steel, horses, cannon shot, even the Italian Guard ran like little girls on the first incoming volley.

HPS here I come, no more Talonsoft.



Lt. Colonel Angelo Abruzzese,
12e Chasseurs à Cheval
2e Brigade, 3e Division Cavalerie
IIIe Corps ADN

John,

Golden Morale is in the HPS engine as well, and can be used quite effectively to model solid standing troops who weren't trained or equipped all that well.

Currently in the game engine the quality ratings determines not only the unit's morale, but their quality of meleeing and firing, especially when some optional rules are used.

In the game it can be used thusly. (The value of golden morale can be adjusted in the pdt file, and by placing a minus sign next to the quality number in the oob file any unit can be assigned the value ... in any army.) Say you feel that French veteran line infantry should fight, and stay as B troops. You think Russian veterans should stay as long as the French, but don't feel they should fire as well since they had poorer muskets and powder, so you could rate them as D troops with Golden Morale set at 2. This makes the Russians stand as B troops but they won't fire as well.

Another quick example could be the French Old Guard. I've read opinions in books and on other forums that the weapons and training of the Guard was essentially the same as the rest of the army. So instead of placing a 9 (A+++) in the oob file, one could set the golden morale at 2, and place a -7 (A+). This would have them stand around forever, but modify thier firepower down a bit.

Setting the golden morale at ONE could be used in Jena, and given to the Prussians. So they could be set at C class, and would stand like B troops, but NOT give them any fire or melee bonus if those optional rules are being used.

The golden morale can give designers another tool to use to model cavalry as well, perhaps a way to differientiate between French and Austrian Cuirassiers, etc.

Colonel Al Amos
1erè Brigade Commandant
2ème Division de Dragons