Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Kosyanenko</i>
<br />Bill,

As for the cavalry. Well I already wrote that it takes much more time for Prussin commander to undisorder his cavalry. 2-3 times more!

<center></center>
<center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku
General-Mayor Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko
Commander of the Second Army of the West </b></center>

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

And as my Designer Notes mention that is historical. Why are you arguing against history? Face it. The command system of the Prussians was a mess. Why should I reward them with equal command ranges of the French? Or why should they reorder faster than the French? They didnt and they shouldnt.

Guess I got ONE thing right. [;)]

Ok, as far as I am concerned I am done with this topic. Play out the game. Let Tomasz or Paco play the Prussians and show you how your army can tear the French apart.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Monsieur’s I hear the same people specking all the time on their own winning ways but what about some new comers who just open a HP game. Who is willing to join one side or the other? You Monsieur's, base your assumptions on your own talents and not on the level of all lets say that its one sided for was not the battle one sided well. I see no Russian advantage or Austrian but we play to overcome that which was. Let us not talk of self but the good of all in playing, my own personal view that losing sometimes enlightens you to the person you play and the Armee you are in whether or not they are doing a good job in training or just putting people out there to swim in a sea full of sharks. My vote is to Bill bravo for given me a chance to play what I love to play and thank you for all you do for this my hat goes off to you Monsieur!

Col de Art 6/3 II Corps AN Marbot CS

'<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Guess I got ONE thing right.'

No Bill its all fine as is[:D]you got the whole thing right first time IMHO.

regards

General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

Bill,

Your reaction is strange to me. HPS in general and you personally made a really great work. You really improved the engine. It's really much more historical now. In desingers notes you lined out your conception of how the opposing armies were organised. In particular this includes the number of leaders and leaders ranges. But next you violate your own conception by putting in such a formations as Reserve or East Prussian corps. When customers tell you that it is at the very least strange to see a division of 14 batallions not divided into brigades you take a pose. You say that French army was at the peak of its greatness, that Prussians desintegrated and so on. True. But how is it connected to brigade commanders in Reserve corps? And why should not they be present on the field because of prince Hohenloes mistakes or King's unability to reorganise the army? I know what is working in tight schedule and I know that sometimes one has to do only the most important job. I can imagine that this part of the oob was not done as well as any other because of the tight schedule, lack of info or anything else. For me a normal reaction would be "Sure guys, I'll look it through again". Instead you tell me that I just don't know hot to play the game. Excuse me, but I got my 43 club VPs not by hunting first grade pupils! I just want to help you to make this engine better. I don't ask anything in return except improved historical accuracy. But only insults in return. A atrange argument. If Tomasz, clearly one of the best players in the club, manages to beat you, clearly not one of the best players in the club which you never hesitate to mention, than we must change the quality ratings. So that even Tomasz won't be able to defeat you. In reality Prussians could defeat French if they made a big mistake. But they didn't and Prussia was defeated. All the same in the game setting we have now. It's great! But you just offer to change it so that Prussians are doomed to be defeated. What for?

One more point. So far we were talking about Prussia and France. Prussia was defeated in 6 days. After that Prussian garrisons and formations, with only few exceptions, surrendered after first claim by the French. The army literally desintegrated and ceased to exist. After that came the Russians. They gave 5 major battles Golymin, Pultusk, Eylau, Heilsber, Friedland. In first they were less then 20 000 but Murat said "We thought the enemy had 50,000 men", in second and fourth russians clearly outnumbered the french but not as badly as at Auerstedt. The result both times was a defeat for the french. thrid battle was a real bloodbath. Words of Napoleon "What a massacre! And for no outcome." And only in the fifth when Russians were outnumbered and had to fight on a very weak position they were decisevely beaten. But still did not desintegrate. Please explain me, why Russian army is rated not only below French but below even Prussian! It's against the history and you teach us to "face it" and not to "argue against it". Please explain me why armies that fought for 6 month at par should be rated so different as French and Russian are. I'm talking not about the quality raitings of troops they are ok, but about the command ranges, leaders quality and quantity. Between delaration of war in feb 1809 and the battle of Wagram there were only 5 month. But you rated Austrians in Eckmuhl and Wagram much higher than Russians in Jena. WHY?

<center></center>
<center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku
General-Mayor Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko
Commander of the Second Army of the West </b></center>

As for the info on Russian army. Please do not hesitate to ask. I do not promise to translate any of 1000+ page fundamental books. But we, I mean russian speaking members, would be happy to provide you with info needed and even with translated fragments.

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<center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku
General-Mayor Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko
Commander of the Second Army of the West </b></center>

I agree with Anton. If it aint bust, don't mend it.

Dismounted dragoons I'm indifferent about, I don't see that upsetting game balance. Changing unit quality is rather too subjective. The French soldier was not a superman.

And yes, there are some excellent Russian sources that are pretty unknown outside of Russia. I'm sure the club would benefit from Anton's and other's offer to provide information.

Generaal
2de Brigade
2de Nederlandsche Div
I Corps
Anglo Allied Army

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Colin Knox</i>
As for not being able to move in the open Bill I have not expereinced this, a systematic manuever is required for sure but only moving through cover is not the case. Maybe Tomasz could comment further as he is playing Auerstedt in our guards challenge with Anton and Antony Barlow.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yes I'm up against Tomasz at Auerstaedt and he is don't just fine, I can assure you all[;)]. He neutralised my cavalry in the early stages by forming an extended line of infantry battalions in square, making time for his reinforcements and his artillery to arrive. His infantry refused to break despite a prolonged firefight and melee attacks (the existing morale seems sufficient!) and his artillery is pounding away and ripping holes in my line (my artillery isn't quite able to match this). A finely balanced battle so far with no obvious weaknesses in the French composition of forces, or morale, or leadership. A great game.

<center>[url="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.r.barlow/Napoleonic/nap.htm"]Colonel Antony Barlow[/url]
~ [url="http://www.geocities.com/anglo_allied_army_stats/Anglo_Allied_Army_Cavalry_Corps.htm"]2nd British (Union) Brigade, Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps[/url] ~
~ [url="http://www.geocities.com/militaireacademie/dragoons.html"]4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards[/url] ~
</center>

Guys .

I have to say something.To me , Jena is the Best Nappy game to come out and the most Historical in game playing..

For this along, It shows how much Bill looks into the Battles and History of the time.

Many of you dont know how much gos into putting one of these games together. Jena a lone was going on to 2 years..
Being one of the testers i see what gos into making these game , Each time a new game comes out. theres new updates that improve our game play.

I for one would hate seeing Bill stop making these games, Its us that would lose, I am not sticking up for Bill, as i know he can do that him self. But get fed up with Guys always finding faults ..

Theres many faults with the Other Nappy Games. but i dont see guys going on about them. Lets just trust the ones that make these games as they have done a great job already ,

One day we will have a game that is so Historical, Guys will not want to play it. as they will not be able to do what they can now..Just think if you sent men to attack. and they turned and walked away . because the Command was ****.

I dont think HPS can make every one happy... I am sure when and if 1814 game is done. Guys will have thigs to say then...

I would be happy being an Allied Player, fighting any french officer with the changes to the game...
I have said my part




<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red">
La Commandeur, II Corps
ADN

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

I agree with you Dean. Putting aside all debate I've got to say that Bill is a legend when it comes to hard work and dedication to his games, and to trying to please his customers. Good on you Bill, and Happy Easter[:)]

<center>[url="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.r.barlow/Napoleonic/nap.htm"]Brigadier General Antony Barlow[/url]
~ [url="http://www.geocities.com/anglo_allied_army_stats/Anglo_Allied_Army_Cavalry_Corps.htm"]2nd British (Union) Brigade, Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps[/url] ~
~ [url="http://www.geocities.com/militaireacademie/dragoons.html"]4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards[/url] ~
</center>

I agree also I think the work is amazing. I just did not want to see change to what was already in my view superb, balanced and pretty damn good on the historic front.

Salute

General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

You guys are always welcome in this series to use older OBs. If you feel I got it right the first time go for it.

Use the older OB and enjoy the games! We dont lock the OB in this series so you can do as you the older OBs or modify the existing ones (via a copy of course) as you see to do so.


Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]