Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

I am surveying interest in a new Strategic Wargaming Club. The club would support strategic and grand strategic level, land-based wargames from any period. These are defined as games which typically:

1) Are historically based, though not necessarily historical. For instance, a post WWII Russian/American conflict would qualify. Star Wars would not.
2) Are turn based and pbem supported.
3) Represent a geographical area and a time period in which multiple major battles from a single conflict were fought or contemplated – i.e., a theater or war.
4) Have players represent theater commanders or higher.
5) Have units that represent higher-level formations (usually divisions or their equivalent or higher).

The SWC would compliment current clubs but not conflict with them in that most of the games the SWC would support are not regularly played by, and largely not supported by, clubs such as the Panzer Campaigns Club, Napoleonic Wargames Club, American Civil War Game Club or Colonial Campaigns Club.

This club would differ from a ladder in that all eligible games would be available for promotion points in a single location, and that it would be more of a role-playing club like PCC, NWC, ACWGC or CCC, with emphasis on playing games rather than earning promotions (though there is a promotion ladder in the game). However, those who are members of ladders would certainly be welcome to register qualifying club games in both places, provided your opponent is also a member of the ladder.

If you are interested in such a club, please respond to this post or drop me an email. If you would be willing to serve on the SWC staff, or as a deputy staff member, please note that in your email. Initial club rules have been drawn up and if you would like a copy of them, please note that in your email, also.

Thanks.

Lieutenant David R. Smith
Commanding 2e Hussars Regiment Chamborant
1ere Brigade
2eme Division Cavalerie
II Corps
Armee du Nord
"The Good Die Young!"

Do you have specific Napoleonic games in mind for us to include?

Starting a new club and running it is alot of work. In my experiance, 10% of the people do 95% of the admin in a club.

it may be esier to just include more games

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<center>Monsieur le Marechal Baron John Corbin
Commanding L'Armee du Rhin
Grande Duc de Piave et Comte de Beauvais
Commanding the Division de Cavalerie de la Moyenne Garde
NWC President</center>

I couldn't agree more, John. I would much rather see the games added to the current clubs, which would also free me to get involved in helping with the clubs. However, when I broached that idea on another club I didn't find much in the way of support. The games I have in mind that would apply to this club are <i>Crown of Glory, Empires in Arms</i> and <i>Napoleon in Italy</i>, although there may be others. Thanks for your input.

Lieutenant David R. Smith
Commanding 2e Hussars Regiment Chamborant
1ere Brigade
2eme Division Cavalerie
II Corps
Armee du Nord
"The Good Die Young!"

I would Join with David in this .
Having some of these Games myself , I do know they may take a long time to play . And your main thing will be . how do you give points to members for playing these games.

I Dont think guys that have these game care how many point they get for playing ,They would just like to see them added in the club so members can play aginst each other with them.

Even if they get VP pints for a Victory like you do with HPS games and give them a number of points for the hole game played .I dont think guys that start one of these games up will just walk out on the other guy half way into it ...

The main thing is it would be nice having other Napoleonic games added , I know guys here already with these games and have already games on the go..

This could also get new members joining the club with these games.. And they may not have any HPS ones.. But once they join they may also start to buy the HPS games .

This would be good for the Club and the HPS team , with game sales .

My vote for these to be added , Yes.[;)]100%

<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red">
La Commandeur, II Corps
ADN

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

I reacll that empires in arms was breifly discussed..

AGEOD Napoleon's Campaigns is allowed in the clu7b.

we would need more info on the others

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<center>
[img]</center>
<center>Monsieur le Marechal Baron John Corbin
Commanding L'Armee du Rhin
Grande Duc de Piave et Comte de Beauvais
Commanding the Division de Cavalerie de la Moyenne Garde
NWC President</center>

Napoleon in Italy uses the For Liberty! engine (American Revolution) to recreate Napoleon's first campaign. It covers leadership, wear and tear on the units, different unit types, unit builds and other strategic issues. To me it actually seems better for this type of campaign than for the AR.

Crown of Glory and Empires in Arms both cover the entirity of the Napoleonic Wars. I don't know much about Empires in Arms except that it was very highly touted as a boardgame (made by the same folks who made World in Flames -- possibly the most popular boardgame ever). Crown of Glory covers just about everything from trade, to recruiting, to army and navy actions to diplomacy. It can be played by up to eight, and the countries that aren't played by people are played by the computer -- even in pbem. Like the real period, it can be something of a free for all, with countries changing sides at the most inopportune times.

Lieutenant David R. Smith
Commanding 2e Hussars Regiment Chamborant
1ere Brigade
2eme Division Cavalerie
II Corps
Armee du Nord
"The Good Die Young!"

I cant see a problem adding in new games if the initial response is that they are do-able via PBEM.

However, we sort of decided that Empires in Arms, with its 35 emails per game turn, was going to be a logistical nightmare. And Crown of Glory had some issues that we never got past. Maybe they fixed the problems but I wasnt impressed with the combat routine which had two modes. Either it was going to take too long to do via email or it was too simplistic.

Like you I would love to see a good strategic game on the wars for computer. But alas, I dont have time even for the games I have going let alone to pick up something this involved.

My dream game to play is War in the Pacific by Matrix. Now THAT is a monster of a prospect!

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Crown of Glory .

My self and Bill Peterson played this by email when it first came out . and we did end the game . Playing as 2 player and the computer doing all the other Counties . we found it a good fun game .

Some things we found did not work right once you have more than 2 players playing by email. Thats why some of us could never get it played , But there are new patches out no that have sorted this part out .

EIA, never got around to play this by email , but found the game very hard to work out . After waiting for 5 years for it to come out in the shops .

Napoleon in Italy , I dont have .. But i will say it looks good .

It dos not matter if these games take long to play . the Guys that have them know the game , I think they should be added to the list so Members have a chice to be able to play them if they want ..

They are all PBEM and Napoleonic ,



<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red">
La Commandeur, II Corps
ADN

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

Dean - definitely agree with you on the length thing. If two or more players want to play EiA then let them go to it.

Here is a good question: do we offer up a game ONLY if it gets played alot, once, twice? Should the game be in the inventory EVEN IF NOONE OWNS IT? Why I say that is if we offer up games that we dont play we might get more members. And as long as its turn based (so we can score it right) why keep it out?

So just because noone in the club owns the game shouldnt really deter us from saying "Hey, that looks good and maybe we would get some folks in that would like to play those games and thus increase our membership and perhaps turn them on to the HPS/BG games."

One thought though: in the Panzer Campaigns Club we mainly see ourselves as there to play the HPS Panzer Campaigns series with the Squad Battles and other WW2 games as ok. The Modern titles are ok too but they are counted as Maneuvers. Thus we have a large inventory but we also keep the focus on one series.

Question: does this club see itself as remaining mainly TIED to the HPS/BG titles:

1. For NOW but with a possible change of focus down the line.
2. For ALL TIME - hey, the club was started for the BG titles then HPS titles came out that are similar but not for the others though those are welcome.
3. Other - leaving the door open here.

Here is the blurb from our rules page:

"The Napoleonic Wargame Club was formed by people dedicated to the Napoleonic period in history and war gaming reflecting that period. A lot of people put a great deal of effort into this making club work as well as it does.

The club currently supports 2 game designs, Talonsoft and HPS for a combined total of 7 game titles and with more Napoleonic titles on the horizon the future looks very bright indeed."

One thing that should be looked at during this time of elections is whether the candidates would look to moving us forward to where the club plays ANY Napoleonic type game that is turn based and leaves off on the focus of HPS/BG, or whether they support the current focus, or whether they see something different.

For me I like to be open-minded and dont want to keep the focus primarily on the BG/HPS games.

Example: Joe Smith joins the club and only owns Crown of Glory. That is all he plays. Is this valid? Do we want to punish him if that is all he plays? Or do we want to keep the emphasis on the BG/HPS games as per the Panzer club with the Panzer series? Or something in between?

I see other games coming down the pike at some point that might supplant or at least in part replace the interest of our club members. Sheesh, even at some point during Jena development I was about ready to toss the entire series out my window! We all get sick of playing the same thing all of the time.

Bottom line: my feeling is that we aught to be flexible and NOT mandate that any TWO series be the only game in town and certainly noone is saying thats how it is. But at the same time if Joe Smith joins the club and wants to ONLY play strategic/operational level computer games on the period then more power to him.

Gut check: the club DOES need to keep getting new members or we get stagnant. And I dont think we have gone the way of say the Front Line Club but if we only cater to two designs I think that is where we will end up.

I would like to know the numbers of members by age in the club. It would be nice to know if the majority fit in the 30s, 40s, 50s etc.

My guess is something like this:
20s:10 percent
30s:30 percent
40s:40 percent
50s and up: 20 percent

I would be nice to know the age demographics of this club ...

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

With you Bill 100%.

I love these games by HPS. and would support all there games as you know i am in all the clubs that support HPS games , As i still think they are the best PBEM war games out there by far.

Going back many years when i played table top in clubs. we used to get young guys joining playing only fantasy , why because thats all they see in films .. but once they joined we got them over to Historical war games , and they all wanted to know more about History and battle of the past ..

If we open the doors to other Naoleonic turn base games it will do the same , and will also make the club larger than what it is today .

HPS and TS will alway be the main games , as many of the guys here do work for them in one way or another and the back up is always great for any member .

I do think its time to change a little , when it comes to Ages of members i think most in this club are between 30 and 45 ..
Were in the Panzer club i would say the larger number is 20 to 35.
But that could be to do with the Wars ,

I to buy most Napoleonic games that play by email anyway because i just love the Nappy wars .. so to be able to get other here and play them as we do the HPS games would be great ,

Once new guys join and see the fun we are having with HPS games they will also give them ago , once played no turning back..


<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red">
La Commandeur, II Corps
ADN

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

I am all for adding new games into the club mix.

New games leads to more members and more fun and that is what we are here for.

To add new games we need rael feedback on:"

- Turn based or not
- PBEM or not
- Playability

Are there another criteria we should consider?

Lets from players of the three games being discussed or step up with suggestions for other games to consider

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<center>Monsieur le Marechal Baron John Corbin
Commanding L'Armee du Rhin
Grande Duc de Piave et Comte de Beauvais
Commanding the Division de Cavalerie de la Moyenne Garde
NWC President</center>

I am new to this club, so I hesitate to say too much, but since I was floating the idea of the SWC (which is officially dead due to an overwhelming lack of interest on every front), I have given some of these issues some thought. Also, I am, so far as I know, about as familiar as anyone in the club with two of the games -- though if there is someone else out there with more experience please step up.
I do not own Empires in Arms, but only know it really from its boardgame reputation, which was very good. Some have told me that it is not as good as Crown of Glory, but I will leave that to them to address, while I address Crown of Glory and Napoleon in Italy.
Crown of Glory is turn based. I have played it, but not email. However, I have played its sister game, Forge of Freedom, several times by email and it is very email playable, and play is very similar between the two in general. Dean has played COG by email, and we are about to start a game. He says it is doable multiplayer and smooth two player. The game, itself, is actually very playable. Like most games on this scale, it can seem a little overwhelming at first, but when you learn the system it really doesn't take all that long to play a turn. The only playability problems, it seems to me, have to do with the number of players who handle a file each turn and the number of times each person has to handle the file per turn.
As regards the first, if you don't like to wait on a turn, it is easy enough to avoid playing multiplayer, as the computer simply handles any country not played. The number of files per turn can be kept to one just by not playing out the tactical battles. Now this is just my opion, but I don't like playing the tactical battles in such games anyway. That is not something the strategic commander would do. Besides, if I want to play Napolonic battles at a tactical level (and I do), there are a host of members of this club and some excellent games on historical subjects available. But so far as COG pbem, playing out the tactical battles is probably too cumbersome for anyone. However, there is a "quick battle" option where lets you turn the battle over to the computer.
Napoleon in Italy is Napoleon's first campaign. It is based on the For Liberty! engine. I am currently playing For Liberty! by email with no problems. Again, I have played NII, but not by email -- and again, it plays very much like For Liberty!, the only difference in feel being what you would expect from the change in time and locale. It is a simple (but not simplistic) IGOUGO game, with combat when both sides land in the same hex. It is not difficult to learn the rules at all. You have the option here, too, to play out tactical battles, but again not a good idea for pbem.
The issue of scoring has been raised. Since I have given that issue some thought, I would like to say a word about it here, as well. As a strategic gamer, my suggestion is not to make any unnecessary adjustments to strategic games. For turn points, count a turn as a turn, no matter how many "battle phases" or "tactical battles" are involved. Anything else will require more record keeping than most players want to do, anyway.
As for scoring victory points, I am thinking not only about these games, but down the road. There is a problem in that some games I have seen have only victory, draw and defeat. Some others have more than two levels, like the old AH boardgames that had minor victory, tactical victory and strategic victory. I suggest if you have only one level of victory that be counted as a major victory. If you have more than two levels of victory, the highest level of victory could be counted as a major victory and everything else would be a minor victory.
This combination of scoring procedures would leave club scoring unchanged, and the difference between the winning and losing points in these clubs is not that big anyway (mercifully for me).
So, now that I have said way too much after all, I will finally quit.

Lieutenant David R. Smith
Commanding 2e Hussars Regiment Chamborant
1ere Brigade
2eme Division Cavalerie
II Corps
Armee du Nord
"The Good Die Young!"

This thread has been out for a couple weeks, now and read by a couple hundred people. While there hasn't been a lot of comment, all comment has been in favor of adding these games. Is there a next step?

Lieutenant David R. Smith
Commanding 2e Hussars Regiment Chamborant
1ere Brigade
2eme Division Cavalerie
II Corps
Armee du Nord
"The Good Die Young!"