Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

I have started my first games using the rule and am interested in what everyone thinks of it. I am cuuretnly playing a QB training game with a new Allied cadet as the French and it seems to me it is going to make Waterloo quite a bit more difficult for the French if the rule is used. I think it makes the combat more historical as there will no longer be entire Allied divisions eliminated by charging French squadrons..Infantry and artillery will need to be deatched to eliminate the isolated pockets and it will take some time. What does everyone think, specially French players?[:D]

Brigadier General Ed Blackburn
Commanding Second Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards

Ed,

I'm having a perfectly lovely time leading the <i>Grande Armee</i> in the Waterloo/Wavre grand scenario using the new NME rule. [:D]

Seriously though, NME <b>does </b>require a change in tactics in a, happily, more historical fashion. The key is a certain amount of patience. If you surround a stack of units, although you can no longer effect a ZOC kill, you do inflict heavy casulaties which, combined with the effect of being isolated, will lead them to rout on the following turn. In the subsequent turn you can then "overrun" any isolated & routed units within reach of your troops. [8D]

Obviously, if you simply nipped at a corner of your opponent's battle line, s/he can get them out of harm's way by bringing up reserve forces. But if you have launched a succesful envelopment, and your opponent failed to maintain a local reserve, their army will be quickly destroyed.

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

Ed

FYI, it's me that Paco is having a grand old time with. I'll be foregoing the Waterloo Medal here I feel.

Luitenant Generaal
2de Brigade
2de Nederlandsche Div
I Corps
Anglo Allied Army

One tip I will offer up ... if you ARE outnumbered by Paco put your infantry into Line. The new disorder move value (2/3 movement) will help you pull back and if defeated in combat will mean that you will still be facing the front. Using square is not a bad idea on your flanks. I remember a diagram that Scott Bowden had in his Empire III rules where the French would put infantry in squre on their flanks especially when faced by a large cavalry force.

In the end if the Attacker can get a first hit in on you in this series its kind of hard (with single phase or multi phase) to do much about it. Spacing is very important in the series. Its why I like the 10 min. moves better than 15 min. You have that extra hex of reaction time which can make the difference between a ruptured line or being able to fall back on your reinforcements.

The cure for Paco surrounding your forces is to keep a "deep reserve" handy. This force reinforces your front at any local point. Thus if you keep a brigade handy to rescure surrounded units this should stop the uses of "Routed/Isolated."

Again, the timing of attack/ground distance is VERY important in this series. Placement of troops, guns, cavalry and use of terrain is vital to success. When faced by hordes of Frenchmen ... just keep a few hordes in reserve to beat up on his weary troops (disordered troops now being worth 2/3 value).

Bill Peters
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

I think it gives too much power to skirmisher units.

In a battle of maneuvre where you need to get troops moving along pikes, the enemey can stall your advance quite easily with these invincible skirmisher units.

In a current battle using the large Waterloo campaign in one battle, my opponent has placed two skirmisher units in the chateau at Cherleroi.

One of them I managed to rout in one turn, but in clear terrain on the outskirts of the chateau, my melee against the routed skirmisher failed. 525 Bn of Jeune Garde, melee failed against a routed Prussian skirmisher 5x men, doesnt seem right to me.

The other skirmisher (5x men) held a village hex and also survived a melee against 450 Bn of Jeune Garde.

It might be a more realistic battle where line units are concerned, but the unhappy consequence of the rule is the creation of the super skirmisher.

I plan to offer my sword to my opponent, I cannot fight a battle of maneuvre against skirmisher units.

Perhaps in a setto battle it makes more sense.

Marechal Mitchell
Duc de Rivoli
Comte de Bordeaux
1er Regiment de Grenadiers a Pied, Veille Garde
1er Division D'Infanterie, I Corps AdN

The next update to the series should cure the skirmisher issue of them not being removed in a ZOC kill.

Bill Peters
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tomate_Frit</i>
In a current battle using the large Waterloo campaign in one battle, my opponent has placed two skirmisher units in the chateau at Cherleroi.

One of them I managed to rout in one turn, but in clear terrain on the outskirts of the chateau, my melee against the routed skirmisher failed. 525 Bn of Jeune Garde, melee failed against a routed Prussian skirmisher 5x men, doesnt seem right to me.

The other skirmisher (5x men) held a village hex and also survived a melee against 450 Bn of Jeune Garde.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

John,

Chateaus have always been meatgrinders and they specially require patience. In my game, the Brits filled up all the usual chateaus, but instead of attacking them head-on, I simply bypased them all. Once isolated, they became easy pickings. Papelotte fell 2 turns after it was isolated[:p]. The bn routed off (and was "overrun") and the skirmisher co. that remained behind was also "overrun". The bn garrisoning La Haye-Sainte likewise routed off and I am now biding my time until the skirmisher co. left behind does likewise. Hougomont (Yes, I know HPS changed the name, but I still think of it as "Hougomont"), IMO, is the easiest one to capture. I first carefully pushed all the Nassauers towards the front gate to the chateau (55,76) and then meleed them so they would retreat INTO Hougomont. Meanwhile, a <i>legere </i>bn forced the back gate into the chateau's garden (57,75). Since it is a clear hex AND the defenders have a hex to retreat to, the chateau, this melee always suceeds. Once in, the <i>legere </i>bn simply formed line and is now happily killing the overcrowded Brit Gds at the rate of 25-40/turn. [:D]. With the odd, favorable fire from the other units surrounding the chateau, it takes 2 turns to completely eliminate a Gd co. Since most of them are disordered, their return fire is negligible. Eventually, all the skirmishers will rout, allowing me to overrun the stack.

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

I have a question on this, because I haven't yet have had the chance to see this rule in action. Are skirmishers still eliminated when being overrun in a cavalry charge? Because this never made sense to me.

<center>
D.S. "Green Horse" Walter, Maréchal d'Empire
Duc des Pyramides, Comte de Normandie
Commandant la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3e Division Bavaroise[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/EdM_start.htm"]L'Ecole de Mars[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant les Grenadiers à Pied de la Vieille Garde, "les Grognards"
</center>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
The cure for Paco surrounding your forces is to keep a "deep reserve" handy. This force reinforces your front at any local point. Thus if you keep a brigade handy to rescure surrounded units this should stop the uses of "Routed/Isolated."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Aw, Bill, why do you keep making things hard for me[:D]!

Really, though, this is the point of my original post. All competent commanders in this period ALWAYS kept reserves on hand, from the army/corps level down to local reserves at the Bg level. Starting with the BG games, however, players got into the bad habit of committing everything at once, holding nothing back. These "pie crust" defenses worked when a line of skirmishers could simply plug any holes which developed until units rallied. With the NME option, the HPS games now strike a reasonable balance. On the one hand, skirmishers can no longer be used to stop entire dvs in their tracks. But a defense in depth WILL stop an attacker, so long as you maintain reserves that can c-attack to rescue any units which become stranded.

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by D.S. Walter</i>
<br />I have a question on this, because I haven't yet have had the chance to see this rule in action. Are skirmishers still eliminated when being overrun in a cavalry charge? Because this never made sense to me.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

D.S.,

If the cavalry meet the requisite force ratio to overrun the skirmishers, they will ride over the skirmishers and keep going. If their charge is "stopped" and they have to conduct a "melee", the NME rule then kicks in UNLESS the casualties caused by the melee completely eliminate the skirmish co.

NB: If cavalry charge a unit(s) that the NME rule applies to, the cavalry can "win" the melee even though the unit did not get pushed back because of the NME rule. If the Multiple Cav Melees option is activated, the cav can then simply melee the same unit again and grind it down until it is eliminated due to the succesive casualties inflicted.

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

Paco, if routed units were suceptable to overrun, then I would agree with your comments, but are you sure about the overrun on routed units ?

This has not been the case for me.

One of the Routed skirmisher units was in clear terrain and ZOC surrounded. It had less than 50 men, it was meleed by a 525 man Guard unit and the melee failed. No Overrun at all.

Marechal Mitchell
Duc de Rivoli
Comte de Bordeaux
1er Regiment de Grenadiers a Pied, Veille Garde
1er Division D'Infanterie, I Corps AdN

You can only overrun units that both are routed AND isolated.

<center>Maréchal T. Nowacki
<b>V KORPUS ARMII RENU</b>

Comte de Liege
Duc de la Moskova

Chasseurs a Cheval de la Vieille Garde</center>

I think that Marechals Paco and Tomasz should come over to Pierre's to continue this discussion, lest the Allies take advantage of our good nature.

There is a post or two at Pierre's with questions on tactics for this new engine that I think will benefit French officers.

My personal reserve of Le Courvoisier is on tap, and I am buying. Careful not to ruffle my plumage though.

Marechal Mitchell
Duc de Rivoli
Comte de Bordeaux
1er Regiment de Grenadiers a Pied, Veille Garde
1er Division D'Infanterie, I Corps AdN

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tomate_Frit</i>
<br />I think it gives too much power to skirmisher units.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The "a" patch for Waterloo, along with the patches for all the rest of the series should be on the HPS site any day...Scott has them all in hand, so its just a matter of tying them into the web site.




Maréchal Hamilton, Baron d'Barbancon
21st Division
VII Corps, ADR

Saxon Leib-Garde, de la Jeune Garde, Garde Impériale

Would someone please send me the password to Pierre's? I'd love to get in on a tactics discussion.

Colonel Al Amos
1erè Brigade Commandant
2ème Division de Dragons