Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Andy Moss,

Thanks for that Andy. Partial retreats on or NME would be the more 'realistic' then in your view and why? I still have problems in how the system works at times in regards to these two. Ive had some strange eliminations and survival situations happen at times that went against what I was expecting in regards ZOC and ratios. Anyone else with input is appreciated as well.

I have played with NME for quite a few games. Whatever pseudo realism it provides, I.E. preventing quick elimination slowing down the attack, is greatly offset by the unrealism it adds. Such as requiring a lot unrealistc of effort to eliminate units, surround them by 6 units (to prevent rout retreat) bringing up artillery to pound them to elimintaion. It is actually not a good idea to melee them since they cannot retreat the losses are minimal if not wholly againts the attacker. Best to shoot them down. In effect it requires planning to eliminate surrounded units quickly. Since the rout system is bad, if there are more than one unit you get one that routs the other recovers and prevent a elimination because of rout.

The best formula is the enmbedded melee, all melees are one done at the same time, movement can occur before and after melee.

Partial retreats is OK.

IMHO

Andy Moss indeed.

All I can say is NME doesn't work with partial retreats on, something to do with programming. It was added in a later patch to stop the old big zoc kills. So it's one or the other optional rule. If MOE were encoded into the engine then NME would be more or less redundant. Like Pierre I have mixed feelings on NME - surrounding units and shooting them up isn't historical but it's less likely to happen in a battle game than say a longer campaign game. And in a longer campaign game at least it stops an attacker from running riot all over the map. But big zoc kills are equally unhistorical, as in my opinion is Isolation - units simply didn't surrender en masse after 15 minutes. They wouldn't have even known they were surrounded let alone be in a position to surrender and neatly march off in long columns...or in fact completely disappear.

Everyone has their own views of what is and is not historical and you can debate it ad nauseum. MOE yes. NME yes/Partial Retreats no. Isolation no. Those at least bring casualties down to something more realistic. That's just my opinion from the perspective of commanding D and E grade troops.

AS for House Rules, well most are well meaning but a bugger to apply in a big battle, so I avoid them. Besides any rule can be worked around by a creative mind.

I like NME because it moves the games focus to firepower and not constant melee.

As long as you play with Isolation rules you can have a situation that is acceptable. Units surrounded that rout when Isolation rules are ticked can be eliminated just as if NME was not ticked. I strongly suggest you therefore melee and fire at surrounded units.

By meleeing and firing into the flanks you have a good chance of routing a unit especially once fatigue builds up.

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Marechal Knox

Prince d'Austerlitz et Comte d'Argentan
Ordre national de la Légion d'honneur

"What is history but a fable agreed upon"

But even with Embedded Melee you can see entire Brigades destroyed if done properly. I saw it happen to me in a game. Its why I am not sold on EM. Cavalry can still overrun entire brigades with EM.

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

3. Husaren-Regiment, Reserve-Kavallerie, Preußischen Armee-Korps

Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

NWC Founding Member

For Club Games: I prefer the Single Phase mode of play. I prefer to play with the following options OFF:

MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, CMR, PR, MIM, NDM, OMR (ver 4.07)

Even with isolation it can take forever to get the high quality untis to rout. There should be a fixed number of turns a unit can be surrounded before it routs. Then used with the isolation rule it would quite accepatble.

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Field Marshal Sir Edward Blackburn, 1st Duke of Aberdeen K.G.
85th (Buck's Light Volunteers) Regiment of Foot
16th British Brigade
7th Division
III (Peninsular) Corps
2nd Battalion, Coldstream Regiment of Foot Guards

I DON'T PLAY WITH ROUT LIMITING OR NME OFF

It has been my experience that with NME on the games became a melee fest. Why not charge cavalry deep behind enemy lines when they cannot then be eliminated

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Marechal Jonathan Thayer
Prince de Friedland et Duc de Saalfeld
2ère Brigade
1ère Division de Grosse Cavalerie
Réserve de Cavalerie
La Grande Armée