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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2001 1:57 pm
Posts: 208
Location: USA
Gentlemen,

I still do miniatures and intend to paint these units. As I've researched I've seen a lot of disagreement about uniforms and structure. First and foremost, were there two battalions of each or only one? Our games typically show only one but I have read that there were two. Does anyone know? Despite some info saying that Tirailleurs du Po wore green uniforms I have concluded that they were blue much the same as French light infantry. I also don't think Tirailleurs du Corses wore brown as depicted in our games, but there is much contention on this subject. Does anyone have a definitive source for either?

And anyone know where one can find 15 mm figures for Tirailleurs du Corses (they carried their ammo box up front rather than behind like most others). Also need line and Guard sappers/pioneers.

Regards,

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Maréchal d'Empire Theron Lambert
Grand-duc de Montereau et Duc d'Angers


Last edited by Theron Lambert on Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:28 am 
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Posts: 1765
Location: New Zealand
Hi Theron
The Napoleon series website has some good info and sources I quote
from http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/c_corses.html
although you have probably seen this.

Also I suspect there was only 1btn. That's all I have ever read on it. Austerlitz being their most famous action. They were added to the 11th Legere it would seem in 1811 which means Eylau, Jena and Wagram histories are probably other sources to look at

"Uniforms

Most sources have the Tirailleurs Corses wearing brown legere uniforms with green facings, cuffs, turnbacks, and collar. There was no piping on the collar or cuffs. Uniform cut, buttons, and equipment was the same for regular French light infantry regiments except for the cartridge box. It was worn on a waist belt in the front, instead of on the side. Two sources (Bucquoy and Knotel) show the belts and straps for the voltigeurs as white in 1809, but buff for the chasseurs in 1808 and 1810.

Epaulets: Chasseurs wore green epaulets, with yellow tops, while voltigeurs had yellow ones. Carabiniers probably wore red epaulets. Officers wore silver epaulets.

Headgear: Carabiniers wore a bearskin. Chasseurs wore the normal light infantry shako with green trim, cording, and pompom. Voltigeurs wore the same, except for yellow cording, trim, and plume. Shako plates were the 1806 diamond shaped regulation plate, made of white metal, with an eagle over a hunting horn. There was number stamped in the center of the horn.

Note: There is some contention in the color of the uniforms. Although most books give the uniform as being brown, Rigo states: "From the time of its creation on 15th March 1808 the Battalion was dressed in blue, faced with green. Notes preserved in the CARL Collection and also in the Military Alphabet give chestnut brown faced with green in 1809. We should not like to throw any doubt on the word of our distinguished predecessor, but on the other hand we know that no chestnut brown cloth is mentioned in the clothing returns dated 15th March 1808 at DEUX-PONTS which is preserved in the Vincennes Archives in file Xk 4. It is for this reason we have depicted our Sergeant-Major Standard-Bearer in the dress of 1804-1805." This is interesting. . . a close examination of the Bucquoy plates and the Knotel plates in Etling's book show very similar figures as if they used the same source to paint them. For example both have plates of a voltigeur for 1809, and a chasseur in 1808 wearing a brown uniform with red facings; yet neither show a carabinier. This leads to some possible speculation. Corsican Legion units were dressed in blue uniforms in the early 1800s but eventually switched to brown. . . Did this lead the original source (the ones Bucquoy and Knotel used) to assume that the Tirailleurs Corses also wore brown uniforms? The Tirailleurs Corses had their origins as the 3rd Battalion 8th Demi-Brigade and only became a separate unit on 5 December 1804.10 Did they change their uniforms when they became a separate battalion?"

PS I got them overkilled in my current game of Austerlitz. :french???: :russianveryhappy: :frenchshock: :frenchcharge: :frenchcharge:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:45 am 
Salute!

I have very fond memories and a great liking for the Tirailleurs du Po as that was my first assigned unit here in the NWC.

I have taken the following from one of my favorite sites: Napoleon: His Army and Enemies:

The Tirailleurs du Pô were formed in 1803 of Piedmontese soldiers (northern Italians). According to John Elting "they rapidly became a crack battalion". In 1811 the Tirailleurs du Po were incorporated into the French 11th Light Infantry Regiment.
They were light infantry and wore striking uniforms. The jacket was dark blue with red lapels and white waistcoat. The breeches were also dark blue. The gaiters were short and black.


The light battalion of Tirailleurs Corses was raised in 1803. Philippe d'Ornano, a Napoleon's cousin, became their commander. Probably for this reason they were nicknamed "les cousins de l'Empereur". All the soldiers of Tirailleurs Corses were volunteers and all Corsicans (not Italians) and its depot company was located in Corsica. All officers except one, the quartermaster, were Corsicans.
The battalion consisted of six field companies (1 carabinier, 1 voltigeur and 4 chasseur) and one depot company. They wore brown jackets with green (or red) cuffs, turnbacks, and collar. The men of chasseur companies distinguished themselves with green epaulets, with yellow tops, while voltigeurs had yellow ones. The carabiniers wore red epaulettes and bearskins.
The cartridge box was worn on a waist belt in the front, instead of on the side, like it was the norm in the French regiments.


This would seem to concur with much of what has been described elsewhere in this thread.

Regards,


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Gentlemen,

Thank you for your assistance.

I have recently come across this description for the Tirailleurs du Corses which I translated using Microsoft Word -- it's a poor translation but understandable:
"Long assigned wrongly a brown cloth distinguished Scarlet or green uniform. It is in fact the sedentary units stationed in Corsica, who wore the name of Corsican hunters. The Tirailleurs Corses are dressed in the uniform of the French light infantry, in blue cloth, distinguished from green to the collar, cuffs and facings tabs. They are wearing of a black shako adorned with a plume Hunter Green, Scarlet for the Carabinieri and Daffodil for the voltigeurs. The shakos are behaviour with a lace of distinctive color red and yellow to distinguish Carabinieri and voltigeurs, as well as by wearing shoulder pads to color fringes. Their hallmark is a cartridge pouch (a carchera) brought on the belly to Corsica."

Regarding the Tirailleurs du Po I found the following:
"The definitive description of the uniforms of the Po Tirailleurs is provided in a letter written in 1847 by E. Hulot, the commander of the unit from 1805-1807. The letter, which is reproduced in a short biography of Hulot by
an anonymous author, provides the following information (translated from the French by me):
Quote
You have asked me to write to you to describe the uniforms of the Po Tirailleurs and the Corsican Chasseurs so that these two corps can be accurately depicted in a painting concerning the Battle of Hof, February 6, 1807, that is being created by Colonel Langlois. These two corps had the exact same uniform as all the other light infantry of the period and the same organization -- nine companies (including one of carabiniers) and no voltigeurs [!?]. My battalion differed from the other only in the dress of the drummers. Both a drummer and a fifer were attached to each company; they carried a small carbine suspended from a sling and were commanded by a drum major. Their uniform was different from that of all other drummers and fifers in the army because the lapels were red and were cut to a point in light infantry style. Unquote

The only other information I have on point is that on July 27, 1804, Napoleon ordered Berthier to make sure that the Carabiniers of the unit received the bearskin caps he had agreed they could have."


Regards,

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Maréchal d'Empire Theron Lambert
Grand-duc de Montereau et Duc d'Angers


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2001 1:57 pm
Posts: 208
Location: USA
Gentlemen,

Thank you for your assistance.

I have recently come across this description for the Tirailleurs du Corses which I translated using Microsoft Word -- it's a poor translation but understandable:
"Long assigned wrongly a brown cloth distinguished Scarlet or green uniform. It is in fact the sedentary units stationed in Corsica, who wore the name of Corsican hunters. The Tirailleurs Corses are dressed in the uniform of the French light infantry, in blue cloth, distinguished from green to the collar, cuffs and facings tabs. They are wearing of a black shako adorned with a plume Hunter Green, Scarlet for the Carabinieri and Daffodil for the voltigeurs. The shakos are behaviour with a lace of distinctive color red and yellow to distinguish Carabinieri and voltigeurs, as well as by wearing shoulder pads to color fringes. Their hallmark is a cartridge pouch (a carchera) brought on the belly to Corsica."

Regarding the Tirailleurs du Po I found the following:
"The definitive description of the uniforms of the Po Tirailleurs is provided in a letter written in 1847 by E. Hulot, the commander of the unit from 1805-1807. The letter, which is reproduced in a short biography of Hulot by
an anonymous author, provides the following information (translated from the French by me):
Quote
You have asked me to write to you to describe the uniforms of the Po Tirailleurs and the Corsican Chasseurs so that these two corps can be accurately depicted in a painting concerning the Battle of Hof, February 6, 1807, that is being created by Colonel Langlois. These two corps had the exact same uniform as all the other light infantry of the period and the same organization -- nine companies (including one of carabiniers) and no voltigeurs [!?]. My battalion differed from the other only in the dress of the drummers. Both a drummer and a fifer were attached to each company; they carried a small carbine suspended from a sling and were commanded by a drum major. Their uniform was different from that of all other drummers and fifers in the army because the lapels were red and were cut to a point in light infantry style. Unquote

The only other information I have on point is that on July 27, 1804, Napoleon ordered Berthier to make sure that the Carabiniers of the unit received the bearskin caps he had agreed they could have."


Regards,

_________________
Maréchal d'Empire Theron Lambert
Grand-duc de Montereau et Duc d'Angers


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:21 am
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Very Interesting and excellent sources.

I congratulate and thank you all for the information, it will be used for several such units in my 25mm army. :frenchsalute:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:01 am
Posts: 1413
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Theron,

You can find your Pioneers and Sappers here:

http://eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=1_2_14

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