Colonial Campaigns Club (CCC)

Colonial Campaigns Club

*   CCC Join   New Game Entry   End Game Entry

*   CCC Staff   CCC Rules   FAQ   About the CCC   Awards Center   Training Center

*   The British Armies in America

* Continental American Army

* l'Armée de Terre Royale (French Army)

* Indian Alliance

 
Club Forums:     NWC    ACWGC     Home Pages:     NWC    ACWGC    CCC
It is currently Mon Jun 23, 2025 12:01 am

Board index » - Colonial Campaigns Club Board » The Colonial Tavern

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 14 posts ] 
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Steve Davenport
 Post subject: 1812:OOB
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 12:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 12:59 pm
Posts: 97
Location:
How are the OOBs determined in the game? I have been playing for about two months now and I'm noticing some scenarios are mustering units which weren't present and other scenarios which are missing officers.

Steve
Pvt, 36th US Inf
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rich Hamilton
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 12:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 8:49 pm
Posts: 734
Location: USA
Steve,

Can you elaborate a bit? You can send me details at rahamy@hist-sdc.com if you wish. Or at support@hpssims.com

Regards,

Rich

<HTML>
Lt. Col. Hamilton, New York Militia</HTML>
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Al Amos
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 1:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 6:38 pm
Posts: 1414
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Steve,

shhhh.... we don't worry about historical things here. hehehehe...

Okay I'm kidding.

Check out Rich Hamilton's SDC site, through the club's link page. There you will find how oobs are built, etc.

You can view any of the oobs in a normal text editor program. I use TextPad.

By the way if you're talking about any of the 1814 campaign games, I know the guy who put that together. A real screwball. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> hehehe...

BTW, I'm always open to recieving source material or additional information on the subject.

Lt. Col. Al Amos
1st U.S. Dragoons 1812-R
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Steve Davenport
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 1:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 12:59 pm
Posts: 97
Location:
At Crysler's Farm, Col. Edmund Gaines is not assigned as commander of the 25th US Inf, I have his biography, and it says he was there.

At Chateauguay, there are several units present in the scenario which did not participate in the battle. My info on this is from Don Graves book "Field of Glory", so it could be wrong....it is different from John Frederiksen's brief regimental battle list in "Free Trade and sailor's Rights"

Steve
pvt, 36th US Inf
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Al Amos
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 2:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 6:38 pm
Posts: 1414
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Steve,

Rich Barbuto has an excellent magazine covering the War of 1812. It is posted at Magweb. In the No.2 Issue, July 2001 he has an article about the Battle of Chateauguay.

Here is the OOB he gives for the US:

American Order of Battle - Hampton’s Division
First Brigade commanded by Colonel Robert Purdy

Light Infantry Corps (350)
4th Infantry (600)
33rd Infantry (300)
Maine and New Hampshire Volunteers (400)
Second Brigade commanded by Brigadier General George Izard

10th Infantry (250)
11th/29th Infantry (750)
30th/31st Infantry (700)
Cavalry 150 organized in 2 companies
Artillery 8 six-pound guns and 1 howitzer organized in three companies

The Light Infantry Corps was an ad hoc formation of the light companies from all the infantry regiments. The Maine and New Hampshire Volunteers were separate organizations consolidated for this campaign. Likewise, four regiments in the Second Brigade were consolidated into two maneuver units.

Perhaps the combining of units threw off Mr. Graves? Not meaning to be rude to Mr. Graves, just throwing out a suggestion.

Rich also covers a couple of units per issue, but hasn't covered the 25th US Inf yet.

I recommend his writings to all.


Lt. Col. Al Amos
1st U.S. Dragoons 1812-R
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Steve Davenport
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 5:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 12:59 pm
Posts: 97
Location:
Al,

As to the participants at Chateauguay, I agree with the research of Barbuto and Graves (their oobs are identical). I was wondering where "1812" OOB for this battle came from because the units in the scenario are different from those suggested by Barbuto and Graves; the senior command staff is the same however (Hampton, Izard, Purdy).

BTW, Richard Barbuto has a new book out titled "Niagara 1814".

Steve
Pvt, 36th US Inf
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Al Amos
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 6:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 6:38 pm
Posts: 1414
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Steve,

Oh okay. I just looked over the scenario oob and you're right it is very different.

al

Lt. Col. Al Amos
1st U.S. Dragoons 1812-R
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Rich Hamilton
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 3:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 8:49 pm
Posts: 734
Location: USA
Steve,

I pulled my OOB information from about 6 different sources, all listed in the Bibliography linked in the notes.hlp help file in the main game directory. During my research I found lots of conflicting information so I often had to use my judgement as to what to include and what not.

Several of the scenarios are also what if, and do include units that wern't there (intentionally) to make it a better battle in terms of game play.

Finding leader names for this war (and pictures) was a total nightmare, and I did the best I could.

If you can provide me with documentation for a couple different sources siting where a change should be made I'll be glad to do it, and include it with the next patch. I just can't make said changes with only one source noted.

Oh, and by the way, Al did the add-on 1814 campaign. That's how he knows the guy. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Regards,

Rich

<HTML>
Lt. Col. Hamilton, New York Militia</HTML>
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Al Amos
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 4:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 6:38 pm
Posts: 1414
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Steve,

Rich Hamilton did a great job putting War of 1812 together. Much of the information I found wasn't found until after the game was released. It seems this war is getting to be more popular with authors and publishers recently <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>!

BTW, Rich is right. I did the 1814 campaign which is why I called the guy a screwball. No intention to cast that light on Rich H. at all. Although the guy did just get married.... hehehehe...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>.
al

Lt. Col. Al Amos
1st U.S. Dragoons 1812-R

Edited by - Al Amos on 07/06/2002 10:09:33
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Steve Davenport
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 12:59 pm
Posts: 97
Location:
Rich,

I think you've done a fantastic job bringing to life a period in US history that is a "huh?" in the minds of most people. I've run into the same problems when trying to piece together who was where during the war.

I'll check my books and send you an annotation for units at Chateaugauy and also Crysler's Farm.

I'll be better in the future about citing sources for future updates.

Steve
Pvt, 36th US Inf
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Gary McClellan
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2001 1:13 am
Posts: 658
Location:
Now all we need is Mexico (hinthinthinthint)

Yes, I'm shameless, you think I care?

Lt Gary McClellan
12th Virgina Light Dragoons
CO Northern Department
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Al Amos
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 6:38 pm
Posts: 1414
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Gary,

Make the Mexican War. You know how <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Lt. Col. Al Amos
1st U.S. Dragoons 1812-R
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Gary McClellan
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2001 1:13 am
Posts: 658
Location:
Al, heh, probably a bit more viable than my current project *L* As you'll see when my SDC disaster is released to the public..

*mutter* need to find an OOB for Elixheim... *mutter*
*mutter* need to find a map for Elixheim *mutter*
*mutter* need to find a way to make a map for Elixheim* *muttermutter*

Lt Gary McClellan
12th Virgina Light Dragoons
CO Northern Department
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Ernie Sands
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 11:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 5:51 pm
Posts: 1951
Location: USA
I agree that there are conflicting reports about OOB's and who was where, when. I think we have to balance the conflicting HISTORICAL information we can find and do the best we can. That was done in the 1776 and the 1812 games. We have to remember that the records of the day (pre-1900 or so) were very fragmented and even eye witness accounts between 2 people on the scene, provide different "facts". This can best be seen in the accounts of various Civil War Generals about "after action" reports. I have seen this in a lot of my reading.

Recently, I have been reading some of George Washingtons' writings, speeches and diaries and I haven't sat there and tried to compare them with other historical documents, but they do show some interesting things. For instance, the incident when Continental troops found a dog wandering the battle area, 2 days after Germantown and discovered it was General Howe's dog. General Washington had Alexander Hamilton, his aide-de-camp, send the following:
"Octr 6. 1777
General Washington's compliments to General Howe. He does himself the pleasure to return him a dog, which accidentally fell into his hands, and by the inscription on the Collar appears to belong to General Howe."

I have heard various versions of the story.

Another very interesting story is from an address by Washington, during the Battle of Long Island to his troops. It is interesting in todays context (if the wording is exact) in light of recent California court rulings:
"The time is near at hand, which must probably determine
whether Americans are to be freemen or slaves; whether they
are to have any property they can call their own; whether
their houses and farms are to be pillaged and destroyed and
themselves consigned to a state of wretchedness, from which
now human efforts will deliver them.

The fate of unborn millions will now depend, <b>under god</b>, on the courage and conduct of this army."
General George Washington

It is so much easier, in my opinion, to get competitent information on modern wars/conflicts, like WWI and WWII, Vietnam etc, than it was in much earlier times and THOSE games I would hold to a more closer scrutiny of facts.


<b><font color=gold>Ernie Sands
BGen, 3rd East Kent,CCC
President, Colonial Camp Club
Col,1 Konig,VIII,AdR
LtGen,CO XXIII Corps AoO
Sch,183Inf,VIII,PzC
Pvt B Co, 3/3-MBC </b></font id=gold>
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 14 posts ] 

Board index » - Colonial Campaigns Club Board » The Colonial Tavern

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
POWERED_BY
Localized by Maël Soucaze © 2010 phpBB.fr